I'm crap at parenting!

[monkeyflippers]

Hi, I'm crap at this parenting!

I have dc4 and dc2. dc4 is very demanding and it seriously drains me. She is generally good at playing by herself but say if she is doing drawing, she'll be drawing nicely and then will ask for different pens (she can't find them) then she needs crayons too (which have to be kept high up to stop dc2 drawing all over the house) then she wants glue, then sticky tape, then different paper, then stickers, then glitter, then tissue for her nose, then water . . . and it just goes on and on.

At the same time she'll be asking questions and I answer them and she tells me my answer is wrong and will argue that til the cows some home. Then she will start some roleplay game that she's making up as she goes along so I don't know the rules and gets annoyed when I don't say exactly what she wants as of course I've no idea what she wasnt me to say. Plus I'm not a puppet!

Then she'll ask for more toast and I say in a minute as I'm in the middle of something. She knows not to ask again but does anyway. So I tell her that I will get it is a minute and NOT TO ASK AGAIN but she asks again and again. Then i get angry!

Then I'll go and get dress and they will both follow me. They will be playing nicely but dc4 will keep asking for things and asking me questions and want help putting on various outfits and will then start messing with my shoes and will jump on the bed and on me when I'm trying to put my make up on.

I'm not great at this parenting lark and lost the plot in the end and shouted.

The 2yo is obviously demanding but nowhere near as much as the 4yo.

HELP!

You are not a crap parent. Sounds like your DD needs some time with children her own age. Does she go to a nursery or pre-school?

She in full time school!

Before school and after school I can deal with it mostly but school holidays and weekends it gets harder. I think she is one of those children who needs a lot of stimulation generally and her play is very creative and rather bonkers!

I really want us to have a close relationship but I feel that this gets in the way and I worry that if I can't make it work now it never will .

I feel for you! My two are the same age and it is the same. They are just so needing of my attention all the time which is exhausting and leaves me feeling like I'm not the perfect parent because I'm not liking to have to give myself to them all the time. But I know it will get easier as they get older and need me less and then I will miss this stage as everyone says, 'enjoy it while it lasts.' But that doesn't always help when in the moment. Do you have time out for yourself? One thing that keeps me going on days like yours is looking forward to getting to the gym and also looking forward to their bedtime some days!!! Don't feel guilty for shouting, we all have to do it at some point. Kids seem to enjoy annoying us!!

Hi monkeyflippers - I also have two the same age as yours and it is my 4.6 year old dd who is the most demanding. She sounds exactly like your dd...and does the same thing where she asks me something and is cross because I don't give her the answer she has in her head. And then tells me what she wants me to say!! I thought it was only my dd who did that!!!! I find it infuriating some days so you're definitely not alone! She also does the thing where she starts off colouring and then asks for sticky tape, this, that and the other...I could have written your post! Luckily my 2.3 year old ds is far, far less demanding and very easy going.

have you read Dr Green's "Toddler Taming" - he talks about this extensively, the reasons for this behavior and some possible solutions.

My DD's only 12 months so I've not yet had to put any of his advice into practice so I can't say if it works or not, but it seemed very spot on and down-to-earth - might be worth a look.

for the record you don't sound like a crap parent - the fact that you care shows you're not..

I´m coming more and more to the conclusion that this kind of behaviour in my dd (5) is because of jealousy over ds (2). I think the only answer really is for me to have more special time with dd alone. Last weekend dd was really ill. DH took DS out all day on Saturday and all day on Sunday (I think he preferred the idea of going to the zoo with ds than staying at home all the time - normally dh is the only acceptable one to dd and she tells me to go away because I´m not him). It did me and dd so much good to have the weekend just to ourselves. We read together, cuddled and played quiet games (she was really quite poorly anyway). It was the best time we´ve had in ages - ironically. I think otherwise she feels so betrayed that I´m giving her brother attention that she tries to get my attention by any means possible. Could this be the same with you???

she just wants your attention. can you sit and play with her for a bit here and there?

also read playful parenting by cohen - you can get it on amazon

@Skyblueflippers,

Your DCs are both at difficult ages. 2 is tough, 4 is worse - since by then they are verbal, argumentative and (like yours sound) bloody intelligent.

It's hard, and there isn't an easy way out, but it will pass. 3 and 5 are much easier.

Don't think about 6 and 4, you will need chocolate and alcohol, but it gets better after that.

Mine are 10 and nearly 8 and it's OK now - looking forward to puberty though...

SkyBluePearl - I do try to play with her here and there as much as I can. I always feel like it's not enough though and always feel guilty. I find it hard to play with her sometimes because the games she plays change direction all the time and she makes the rules up as she goes along so it's like being in crazy land. Like I said ealier though I try to do the things with her that I find work for us like colouring or hide and seek etc. I will look up that cohen book.

MrIC - I have read Dr Green's "Toddler Taming" but could clearly do with reading it again!

13lucky - We have the same child!

monkeyflippers - I forgot to add that my dd asks for something and if I say to wait while I'm just doing x, y or z, she will ask again about 3 seconds later. I patiently say I've said I'll get it when I've finished this, please don't ask anymore otherwise I won't get it and I'll then give one more warning and if she asks again she doesn't get it. It is tiring and pretty explosive because I then follow through with this but I think she's getting the tiniest bit better with this aspect!!!

The 'telling me what I need to say' thing though is exhausting and baffling, and I agree her games also are difficult to follow!! My dd also loves hide and seek and wants to play it ALL the time.

UPDATE from this morning

me: put you coat on
dc: I'm still drawing
me: put your coat on or you'll be late for school
dc: ok (still sitting)
me: (getting annoyed) put your coat on!(dc now swinging on a gate thing and gets removed by me)
dc: (crying) you pushed me off!
me: get your coat on and stop playing
dc: I wasn't playing (still crying)
me: yes you were and there's not time. Put your COAT ON!
dc: I wasn't playing
me: (about to go mad)
dc: I wasn't playing!
me: yes you were, you were swinging on the gate, PUT YOUR COAT ON!
dc: It wasn't playing, I was pretending it was water.
me: SO THATS PLAYING THEN!!!!!!!!

I then proceeded to shout like a lunatic and kick a kitchen cupboard, swear and all the other things you aren't supposed to do.

I have posted another thread about how I have trouble with feeling aggressive due to a trauma and depression, anxiety, grieving etc. so wasn't sure whether to put this there or here but seeing as this is my most recent I put it here.

I honestly don't know how to stop my dc from arguing with me and her dad ALL THE TIME like this. Please help? I have always tried to explain everything to her but there comes times when she just needs to do what I say! She seems to miss the point a lot as well, that it didn't matter what she was doing (playing or not) she just needed to stop it and get her coat on! I need a way to make her stop arguing, any ideas? Just something to say that makes her focus on the important thing (getting ready for school).

HEEELLLPP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I feel your pain. I think you just need some strategies?

Have you tried counting to 3? Say if she won't come and put her coat on by the time you get to 3 then "X" will happen (eg: you will get her and put her coat on her like a baby, you will not let her have TV later, some other appropriate thing) then follow through with that if she doesn't come. I do this loads and it really works. Now I just say "Do I have to count?" and DS 3.5 does what I need.

Or you could try the silly route - "Look, your arms have turned into fireworks... they are going to shoot through the sleeves and your fingers will explode out of the end" (maybe pretend to light her 'fuse' and count down to when they will blast off)

Oh god I feel for you - my two are the same. Compounded at the moment as I'm potty training the youngest so my boy is going insane! I'm sure there are better options but my current bag of tricks include
I) bribery he currently gets 3 sweeties if he dresses himself with out me having to nag. I find once he gets in the practise of something i can drop the bribe. And the promise of a play date is magic ..." Well I would ask your friend's mummy but we're so late I'll probably miss her...."
Ii) turn the question back on him... Why do you think that happens? or what do you think Spiderman thinks about that? (helps if they are slightly obsessed by someone!)
iii) "mummy and ds dates" I've arranged child care so every Tuesday I can pick him up by himself for 2 hours. We normally only go for a snack and to the park but he knows it's his time

Good luck and any other 'tricks' I'm happy to hear!

Your DD sounds completely normal - I think that the scenes you describe are happening in thousands of homes around the country every single day.

Can I suggest that you take a look at Parent Channel TV? I know your daughter is 4, but as she is already at school, I'm guessing that a lot of the 5yo stuff will be relevant.

Definitely agree with SeoraeMaeul about "mummy and ds dates".
I think you need to work on your trauma/depression/anxiety/grieving issues - I guess that is having a big effect on your relationship with your dd. Although as piprabbit says, everyone has those kind of scenes sometimes. I have thought a lot: "she needs to do what I say" and "she doesn't understand me, I'm under a lot of pressure here". But that actually doesn't help either of us. The best is to ignore those kinds of feelings and stay calm. In the situation which you describe above I say to her something like "you are just busy drawing now, but we need to get to school." I set the timer on our cooker and say, "let's say you've got 3 minutes to finish off drawing now and then when the timer goes off, would you come and put your coat on?" She almost always agrees to this and then comes. As for your argument about whether she was playing or not, I think it is best to listen to her - it doesn't cost you anything. If she was pretending it was water, then join in that - you could both pretend to swim to school! She will feel taken seriously if you listen to her telling you that she was not playing but pretending it was water.

PS I posted on here a while ago with the problem "getting dd to school when she wants to stay and play!" - so I'm not speaking as a knowledgeable authority but as a fellow struggler! The kind of tips I got were: allow as much time as possible so you're not stressed (which I found to be a good tip) and what I wrote above!

Well, at least I now know it's not just my DD! It drives me up the wall. Almost every day there is some sort of argument about going to school/getting dressed/having dinner/talking DS downstairs when she wasn't ready for it (!??!)/going to bed/getting in the car/getting out of the car...

... you get the picture.

My only saviour is that it is a LOT better than it used to be and instead of being nearly constant is mostly only 3 or 4 times a week now.

We find that a lot of it is hunger related and unlike DS who at only 2 knows when he is hungry and opens the fridge and brings us a bowl DD doesn't seem to.

I too scream like a mad banshee on occassion and feel like a great big failure, but I don't believe parents who say they never lose their temper with their DC - they are either lieing or saints in my opinion.

If you find the answer let me know, and I;ll do the same - but I actually think it is grin and bear it and hope to god they turn out alright in the end!

I notice that most of these children have younger siblings, and I think this is the key to their behavoir.

My DD (5) behaves in exactly the same way and I can see that she is crying out for attention.

Her brother is just 15 mths younger and has always been the more 'difficult' one (possible special needs). I realise that he receives more attention than DD.

DD is finding it impossible to live up to the label of sensible, older child, that we have all unwittingly give her.

I am making an effort to give her much more one on one time

yy to younger siblings and the cries for attention

For me, the key with cries for attention is to stop and think about it. Sometimes, its warranted, and as a bribe ( ooo ) I might promise a special game once they are back from school. Or once DH is home so he can look after the younger one. If it is unwarranted, and I feel they have had a fair amount of attention etc then I will get firm and consequences come into play.

If its mild whinging or ignoring requests, esp in the morning ( and I don't know ONE PERSON who never struggles to get their DC out in the am )then this 5 point plan helps:

• Allow an extra 10 minutes. ie get them to start putting on coats and shoes gloves etc 10 minutes before you need them to. This reduces your stress. My friend has her clock in the hall set 10 minutes earlier for this purpose.
• Turn it into a competition. Whoever gets their coat and shoes on first is this morning's winner
• Sticker chart - they get a sticker for getting coat and shoes on at the first time of asking, within 2 minutes
• Turn it into a teach you younger sibling how to do session. Can you put your coat on and show sibling how its done? You're so good at it, she could learn a lot from you....
• Remember it gets better. Mine are 4 and 7 now and miles, miles easier.

monkeyflippers: I think you underestimate just how normal the kind of behaviours and exchanges you describe really are. Some children are easier to reach and are more cooperative than your daughter, but many are not. She may be at the difficult end of the spectrum, which is very tough for you, but the various scenarios you've described will be very familiar to many parents.

I don't think you dealt with the situation this morning badly or said the 'wrong' things. Furthermore, there are no magic words you can say to make a child 'focus on the important things'. If only it was that easy! The truth is they have their own ideas about what's important at any given time and somehow that has to be given due consideration while still getting on with life. Most children do 'miss the point' a lot. They are on 'planet me' and have often have great difficulties comprehending anything which isn't part of that world!

As others have suggested, there are strategies you can develop which are more successful in achieving the various outcomes you need to achieve (such as getting your daughter to school on time) with less stress for both of you. I agree with everything Simic says (and others have repeated). The most useful advice is not to put yourself under time pressure. Playing along, listening, distracting and diverting are much more time-consuming than 'jump to it'!

Count-downs used to work really well for my kids. I'd say "Okay - you've got three minutes to do xyz, but then you need to stop whether you've finished or not because ....". Then I'd give them an update at 'one minute to go', then at 30 seconds, and then I'd finally count down the last 10 seconds. It was a pain in the backside and I had to put aside my own notions about whether it should or shouldn't have been necessary. It worked for my kids when other things didn't, so it was necessary!

I'm very worried about how desperate you sound. The escalating feelings of anger and hostility you describe are something you should seek help with if they appear to be getting out of hand. However, you need to be aware that such feelings are normal and you also need strategies for coping and managing them. Only you can judge the seriousness of the problem and how well you are coping. I hope you have the kind of relationship with your husband where you can speak openly and honestly with him and he is willing and able to support you.

Incidentally, it's not very helpful to look at things in terms of whether you are a 'good' or 'bad' parent. The fact is your kids are stuck with you and you're stuck with them. Some things will be easier for you and some things will be more difficult. Try to make a realistic assessment about what is possible and what is acceptable, while making a sincere effort towards improvement, and that will be good enough. Unless you have very serious problems, you are the perfect parent for your kids.

It's clear from what you say that you think the trauma, depression, anxiety and grieving that you mention are important factors affecting your ability to cope. I think you should seriously consider seeking professional help with these problems if you haven't done so already.

Thanks everyone for you replies. I'll read them again when I have more time but have skim read and there seem to be some helpful suggestions so thank you. Also am feeling a bit better now!

Andre1960 - I'm not really sure what you mean when you say I have escalating hostility, I don't have that at all. Anger though yes! I have received help for the depression etc which was great but it's a work in progress (long road) and I'm improving all the time.

Andre1960 that was a superb post. Really spoke to me as mum to DD4.6 & DD2.6 going through similar issues.

Monkey, you're not alone. Hope you find a way through.

Monkeyflippers: I'm so pleased you're feeling better! Truth is you did scare me a bit, but I think you scared yourself a bit too. That's all part of it, so hang on in there!

Eviz: I'm very touched that I was able to speak to you as a mum. You saying this spoke to me as a dad, and that counts for a very great deal to me.