not coping with chronic early riser / small tired tantruming person - help!

[ginbob]

not coping at the moment - wondered if anyone has any words of wisdom or has gone through anything similar? My 4.5yr old DD has chronic early-rising syndrome, she is getting up at 3am some mornings and refusing to go back to sleep, she wants to play and have lights on and sing and 'make things'. I have twin baby boys who are obviously quite demanding too especially since they don't go down sometimes until 11pm and wake at 2am and 5am. I am usually on my own with the husband away or asleep, and really losing my rag with DD. Am becoming terrible mother, saying she's a horrible child and slapping her and being uncontrollably angry with her when she is constantly rude and cheeky because of her constant tiredness. Most nights she'll be asleep between 5 and 6pm, there is no way I can keep her up longer as it would be impossible, like cruelty - especially after her evening tantrums. Nightmare. The darkness also sends her into a wobbly and the babies screaming makes these terrors worse. Her irrational crying every morning and every night is ruining our family's quality of life. What can I do to be a better parent, what strategies could you suggest, and how can I get through this and be calm?

is she at school?

if not I would build a nap back into her daytime before tackling the nights

the night waking is getting her lots of attention, so it's kind of being reinforced IYSWIM

If you truly are at the end of your tether speak to your GP and ask for referral to a sleep clinic, get some professional support

if your husband is away, well fair enough but if he is sleeping while you are trying to deal with broken nights then that's Not On

Try and push her evenings back bit by bit to gradually make the bedtime later. Try this at the weekend when she has had a very short nap during the afternoon, as BALD says. You can eliminate that nap easily later. I would push for the latest bedtime possible and make that become habit.

I would speak to your gp.

I only clicked on your title because we had to attend sleep clinic with DC2 but it sounds like you are being dragged through hell & back every day.

I agree with boys an earlier day time nap should be introduced, ideally whilst your twins nap & then you can all get some well deserved day time rest.

We had to do the whole keeping her awake after 3pm & it felt like cruelty but had to be done.
I used to take her for walks or to the park & then come home to a strict routine of dinner, bath & bed.

DC is now 6 & sleeps 12 hours straight.

I think ThesleepFairy is right and that your first port of call should be your GP.

I had an early riser and his 5am starts were bad enough but 3am? You poor thing and well done for coping so far. You are a far stronger woman than I.

It will get better and good luck.

thanks. has always been 4am-ish since she was a baby, but it's only recently with early nights being so knackered after school it's been 3am and 3.30am...

It was always impossible to administer an afternoon nap as antidote to early-rising, not since she stopped having one. Not that it used to work anyway, just gave me a bit of me-time. So i can't really do that even on non-school days. Had not thought of going to the GP about this; that all makes it sound very serious and I had always assumed everyone had their little parenting troubles just the same and just got on with it..

i love how my post has officially had a visit from the SleepFairy btw :) my husband is doing mosaics with her currently, to keep her awake fingers crossed for some kip.

ah right, she is at school

she might need medication (melatonin deficiency for eg) so yy get thee to the GP

What about silent return? Or is she too old for that?

It sounds awful - Sleep deprivation is the worse form of torture.

What about sleep trainer clock?

I had loads of trouble with my 4 year old DS and he would wake up DS2 to play with him! When I was pregnant I really nearly lost my mind for lack of sleep so we bought him a sleepytime clock! Got it in Smyths toystore. It has a daytime sun and star for night and you set what time the sun comes up. There is a little story book that come with it and explains why they should stay in bed until the sun comes up. it also acts a night light. We started the first night setting it when DS1 normally wakes up then kept a)rewarding him when he stayed quietly in bed until the sun came up and b)putting the time out by 15 mins every night or other night until we reached 8am. When he was tired/grumpy during the day we would explain that the same thing happened to the pig in his story book because he didnt have enough sleep or use his clock properly. These days he will wake at 7/7.30 but stays in bed!! joy!

I wonder if you can try altering her sleep pattern another way?

My DS2 (age 7) went through a phase of several weeks of waking in the middle of the night - 1 or 2 o'clock. He'd go back to sleep in our bed but then I'd be awake for hours so it was really getting me down.

One night, when I went to tuck him in at my bedtime, I accidentally woke him up a little - he sat up brifly and spoke to me in his sleep. That night he did not wake in the middle of the night.

So the next night, I deliberately spoke loudly enough to him so that he roused and rolled over - did not wake again. Continued doing this and it solved the problem. The one night I forgot to go in to him he woke up again.
I have heard of something called "waking to sleep" - will try and find a link. I wonder if this could work for you

Just found a brief thing on another website. It suggested that some DCs are waking because they are roused by noise outside. They suggested setting up some "white noise" such as a classical music or talk radio station, or a white noise machine (?) to go off on a timer about an hour before her normal waking time. This will mask the outside noise but shouldn't wake her.

This sounds like a similar principle to what I was describing

Will look for more

THIS IS FROM MUMSNET:

"How to deal with persistent early-morning wakers
One technique some Mumsnetters recommend trying is called 'wake-to-sleep'.
The theory is that if you rouse your toddler slightly from their deep sleep an hour before their usual waking-up time and then leave them to resettle, you might disrupt their sleep pattern so they won't wake at the usual time.
So if they normally wake at 5am, you'll need to set your alarm for 4am (yes, we know it's horrific) and then go in and rouse them ? just enough so they're nearly awake but will settle back to sleep again.
After three days you can let them sleep through and see if they will naturally wake at a more respectable hour. If not, you can try it for five or six days in a row (what fun!) and then let them sleep through.
"I did wake-to-sleep with our son when he had a phase of waking at 5am. It was hideous getting up at 4am to wake him, but in a funny way it was better than knowing he was going to wake anyway. It worked for us." RubySlippers

BTW, I don't have to do the wake to sleep any more with my son!. I stopped it after a few weeks, but you might get away with stopping it sooner

Wake to sleep would definitely be worth a try. Thread here about people trying wake to sleep, mostly with younger kids/babies. It can work.

I would also try a star chart with a small reward for a full week of sleeping through. Obviously slapping is not helpful but I think you are right to be angry with her and see this as bad behaviour which she can and should control.

I really hope you get help from your GP. I think you need to rephrase it yourself to appreciate how bad it is.

YOur child is not an early riser... 3 am is the Middle of the Night

Oh how I wish I had known about the wake to sleep theory 3 years ago, we ended up giving our DC medication (it worked but I didn't like it)

Didn't even think about my name before my first post but yes I am thesleepfairy & I will sprinkle some magic sleep dust your way this evening

well - all very interesting and helpful you lovely people, I have just had two more terrible shouty tired rude days, and she's been tired-to-death by 5pm and waking between 3.30-4.30am still, even though we've kept her up against her will until 8. Feeling like a particularly bad mother today, just seem to tell her off from morning til night. Awful.

A star chart has been tried but not specifically for sleeping through, just she got a flower in her garden if she had a clean plate or didn't come in till 6am, or was kind. Maybe a new chart specifically for the sleeping, and this wake-to-sleep technique, good idea. And RubySlippers, since I'm up feeding the boys anyway it's no biggie to pop through and rouse DD slightly while I'm at it, to try and shift the pattern somehow. thanks...

Be careful - we tried it and it didn't work, plus ds woke up too. Nightmare!

But I have talked to people it worked for.

Good luck