I don't think I can cope anymore

[NotANaturalGeordie]

Please help me. My DD1 is 5, DD2 is 7 months and she will not sleep. I feel I have tried everything. But I'm not asking for help with DD2 sleeping routine.

I keep losing my temper with DD1. If she doesn't do something the minute I ask her too, this red rage comes boiling up from nowhere and I'm yelling at her and she looks so bewildered. There's no warning - sometimes I am patient and other times I have this compulsion to keep yelling until she starts crying and although I do apologise afterwards I know I shouldn't do it in the first place. It's almost like I want to hurt her, as though when I know she's hurt (emotionally)it's only then that I can stop.

This morning I screamed blue murder because she didn't get DD2's bib when I asked her. Yesterday I yelled because she was too busy tidying up to come over to me when I asked her.

I know this is bad. I need help.

Poor you, and poor her.

It sounds to me like you're totally exhausted - sleep deprivation can push you to breaking point. Is there anyone who can give you a break, or can you afford to pay for childcare to get a break?

I think you should talk to your GP - you need RL practical help. Possibly some counselling to deal with any unresolved anger issues, possibly some help with your DD2's sleeping.

What were your own parents like? Sometimes anger can be a memory of what it was like to be a child yourself. Not always, it can just be that you're totally knackered to the point where your brain isn't working properly.

You sound just like me. I feel like I could have written that.

I tell myself every morning not to shout and to have more patience but something nearly always sends me to my 'shouty mummy' stage. I hate it.

I spoke to a lot of other mums I know about it and was so relieved to hear that they are the same. I had this impression that every other household was calm and serene but am pleased to say it isn't.

Please remember that you're not alone.

The way I calm down is to think how awful it would be if my children remember me as a loud shouty mummy and that really worries me so I try my very best to turn into a storybook, fairy tale style mummy (and that is VERY hard, especially after being ignored after the 20th time of asking for something).

When I'm at my most shouty I always dread the doorbell ringing as the thought of someone hearing would be horrendous...

Please remember you're not the only one and any mum who says she doesn't get wound up to her wits end sometimes is a bit of a liar.

I think what FattyArbuckel wrote on the "Unconditional Parenting Support Thread" is really great on this point (along the lines of when you feel you're going to explode, trying to make space for yourself, take a moment before you react, to think about your possibilities and make a choice). Please read what she wrote - she put it much better than I could. But, I could imagine you feel it's not easy to make yourself count to ten when you're at boiling point.
It seems to me that you've already taken a big step by realising what is going on.
Is it that you feel sometimes so under stress that you want her to realise how hard it is for you - is that WHY you feel that it's only when you know she's hurt that you feel you can stop? Is it that you want some recognition of how you are being "hurt" or at least, feeling no one is hearing you? (at least, that is how I have felt sometimes).
It has helped me sometimes to realise that and find some adult who I can have a good cry at - to feel heard and that my struggling is somehow noticed.
But, apart from that, all I can suggest is to try to psyche yourself up about realising how it is for her. Think about kind things she has done, her strong points. Try to put yourself in her position and really visualise how one of these situations is for her. Try to hold onto that visualisation and then maybe it will be easier to say stop to yourself as FattyArbuckel says, to take time before you shout.
Another possibility I think is the "distancing" - that you imagine yourself as a fly on the wall, watching the two of you, or as someone on MN answering your post, watching the two of you at that moment. What would you say? How would you calm the situation.
If all else fails - walk out of the room and punch a cushion??? :o
And remind yourself, the things she is doing (dawdling, taking time before she helps you) she is only doing because she is 5. I think all 5 year olds do it - it isn't because they don't want to help - it's just because they are REALLY busy learning about the world and developing themselves (even when it just looks as if they won't put the playperson down!).
And another thing (sorry I've written so much), you are not the only one!!!

Thank you for replying. My mum was not at all maternal, tended to be cold and disapproving, and my dad had these sudden temper tantrums outbursts too.

The only mums I know locally have two kids the same ages as mine and due to childhood abuse issues DH won't allow anyone to look after our children. We are currently all snowed in anyway although TBH that might be part of it, I haven't seen any adult apart from DH and neighbour for nearly 3 weeks now.

Slightly worried about the "DH won't allow anyone else to look after the children" bit.
Can this be talked through properly?
Because he may have issues, but it's also causing issues...

Simic - Have just read FattyArbuckel's post, thanks. Your comment about being 'heard' chimes with me, I miss my friends (all snowed in) and my family (300 miles away and all v busy....).

Katisha - DH's mum was a nightmare, used to lock him in cupboards, hit him with sticks, throw him out regularly but the family always seemed very responsible, reliable etc. He no longer trusts appearances, wouldn't even let my parents have DD1 until she was 4 so that she could tell us if something happened (of course it didn't). He has no friends locally that have any child experience and has no interest in getting to know my friends. He does encourage me to go out in the evenings but I am so knackered and anyway he can't settle DD2 so I don't go.

I don't know what childhood abuse issues dh has, but maybe that is something to talk to a gp about...
At least you can go on MN in the snow :) but seriously, it sounds like seeing other adults might be getting quite necessary??!!

• I don't know where you are or what the snow is like, but can you find some way of getting to see your friends? - or more time with the neighbour? (you and dd with a spade each digging a tunnel through the snow!).

sadiesadiemarriedlady - doesn't trying to be a fairy tale style mother put you under added pressure? Not criticizing, just concerned you're holding yourself up to too high a standard - esp. if you're already worried about your mothering. Children don't need a 'perfect' mother, just a 'good enough' one. And a 'good enough' one is occasionally a bit shouty. Shouting is only a problem if it is a regular out-of-control thing with genuine deep anger behind it (eg what NaturalGeordie says about needing to see the other person is hurt before you can stop - that's proper anger as opposed to the usual end-of-tether that we all have from time to time).

NaturalGeordie - okay, so you're sleep-deprived, snowed in, socially isolated, not allowed to get childcare, and have a 5 yo and a 7mo to entertain in the house... And it sounds like you had a hard time as a child, and not the best role models for your parenting. God, no wonder you're shouting, I'd be SCREEEEEEEEEAAAAAMING blue murder in that situation!

What is your DH like? Is he kind and supportive to you? If you explain how much pressure you're under is he likely to want to find a way to help you out? Would he be willing to have some counselling for his issues and gradually extend his trust a little eg leaving the kids with a good friend for 10 mins at first, then 20....?

Sorry, posts crossed.

On the sleep - I know you're not looking for advice on the routine, but have you tried the baby sleeping with you? You sound shattered enough to go up with her at her bedtime to be honest.

Try and grab every second of sleep that you can, even if it's on the sofa in front of the telly with the pair of them. There is some great advice here for helping you keep your temper, but you really need some rest too. In what other stage of your life have you gone without proper sleep for months on end, while expecting to be able to hold it together during the day? It's really hard.

Goingspare made a good point there. My father also had very explosive outbursts of anger when I was a child. It wasn't until I was about 30 that I finally clicked that it happened when and solely because he was tired. I am also trying to work hard on getting as much sleep as possible.

becstarlitsea - DH is supportive, strong, loyal but I wouldn't call him kind . He does think that if anyone else has the kids then we are 'palming them off' and somehow letting them down.

goingspare - you are probably right about the lack of sleep. The last two nights DD2 and I have gone to bed together and she has screamed until I stand up and start rocking her. Last night I simply couldn't do it any more, so she didn't go to sleep until 10pm ish, then we were up from 2am to 4.30am, then I was so cold I couldn't sleep til 5am and then the alarm goes off to take DD1 to school at 7am. DD2 is asleep now, and looks like an angel (of course)

Have decided to take today 'off'. No housework, just xmas present wrapping and playing with DD2 (and hopefully some sleep). Will ask DH to have DD2 on Saturday and do something special with DD1, just the two of us like it used to be before DD2.

Thank you everyone, I have stopped crying and feel much better now.

becstarlitsea, I mean't by 'fairy tale style mother' that I am trying to be as good as I can. I am not trying to be perfect, it's just a turn of phrase, no one is a perfect mother, all have flaws.

I don't think my shouting is not out of control, I just need to not shout as much, I think I'm more at the 'end of my tether' spectrum than out of control but need to calm down more and appreciate that my dd is only 5.

Good plan, NotANatural.

becstarlitsea, thank you for what you said though, it is a problem that a lot of women think they need to be perfect and if you're under stress and pressure trying to be perfect would only make things worse.

sadiesadie I see what you meant now - apologies if what I said came out sounding judgey, I wouldn't ever mean it that way! Like you say, a lot of women do try to measure themselves against a standard of perfection, whereas for a mother having some flaws is a good thing, not a bad thing. For me, being the 'good enough' mother is much better for your child than being the 'perfect' mother, eg so that your child can learn how to cope with their own anger from watching you cope with your own, and your child can see that it's a normal part of human emotion and that it is safe to feel anger, and to express it, and how to calm yourself down. Whereas how would they ever learn that from a perfect mother who never lost the plot?

NotANatural sounds good, glad you feel better Housework? I've taken the past two weeks off . But nobody in our house has caught cholera just yet.

I think your temper flare ups are something you're just going to have to get a handle on. Although you are exhausted, I think you somehow have to stop yourself. You expect good behaviour from your child, but you need to reciprocate with good behaviour yourself. It might be a while before you get great sleep. I think you'll have to make a decision on this and if you feel yourself snap, immediately walk away till you calm down.

I'm sure you probably had to put up with a lot from your dad and maybe deep down you think you're not going to be put upon by your child, and then snap yourself. A bit of pop psychology which might be rubbish. But anyway, have a think.

Your husband is going to have to help you LOADS if he's not going to allow any outside help.

Sympathies DD1 didnt sleep and by 7 months I was on my knees - luckily she was my first so didnt have an older one to deal with dont know how could have done. Are there other things to try with the non sleeping? Surely that is root of it no one can be sane and rational on no sleep.

Just wanted to add that I too had bad sleepers so I do have HUGE sympathy for you.

More sympathy here. Everything is horrible when you're short of sleep and lacking adult company.

I don't know if it works for anyone others, but my 11 m.o. and I co-sleep and DS sometimes wants to be rocked rather than fed. I used to get up & rock him in the chair, but now I can sometimes lie on my back, put him face down on my front and jiggle / bounce, which I find more restful than having to get properly up, even though I'm still awake.

Thanks for the support. DH is having DD2 tomorrow so DD1 and I can have some quality time - she loves our local HMV which has a Starbucks in. Also DH got up to DD2 last night (that's a first)so am feeling much better and didn't go ballistic this morning.