toddler refuses to try to learn ANYTHING

[bumbly]

3 1/2 year old very bright but....not bright in other ways

1)refuses to try to hold pen/pencil when doodling...all i say is hey try this..he loves scribbling and would have so much more control but as soon as I or anyone else says try this way - he throws pen away angrily

2. cannot cut with scissors one handed...will not try again as above

i bet all toddler out there his age can cut one handed - he wont try one iota! never

3. he said he wanted to do grandma card now this eve with me

buy was it a battle - no scribble no nothing

think i will give the craft thing a miss

is your toddler so hard to get to try anything??

mine will not try to undress, take shoes off, go to loo for pee

everything is a battle!

but the above first two getting me real down!

now i really don't want to do anything with him...xmas cards will not feature him at all this year

buy him ergonomic pencils

most 3 and a half year olds don't use scissors effectively - if he wants to cut something he'll learn now

don't have battles - put it down and walk away so what?

it sounds like you're trying too hard to me - he's 3 he doesn't need to do these things yet

ds2 is 3 and not the least bit interested in arts or crafts of any kind. I think he's put pen to paper maybe once or twice

Sounds like the small muscles in his hands aren't ready yet. Lots of play dough, games with pegs etc will help with that. One of my favourites is a peg race. Put some pegs around two paper plates, then have a race to take them all off. Repeat putting them back on. This will help develop the pincer grip muscles which will help with any fine motor work, cutting, drawing etc.

Agree don't have a battle. It will only make it worse.

Bumbly you have very high expectations I think!

I have a child the same age and he does what he feels like, is totally unreliable and that's basically just how they are at this age...so I expect very little and am always happy when he does try something new.

Really - take the pressure off. At this age they are self propelled little learners, everything is an achievement - even doing a scribble - if you start fussing him about how he is holding the pen, it will make him feel upset, as though the fact he did it isn't good enough. iyswim

Delight in everything he does and stop trying to make him do stuff - there's no need for battles, not about this sort of thing anyway. It'll come. In a few months or years he will be super keen.

Just let him lead you - they have a built in drive to learn, trust in him. There's no need to force it.

Probably doestn' want to try because he senses the pressure you're putting him under! Cut him some slack and let him learn in his own time. Leave scissors and pens lying around and just let him get on with it.

and if you do force things like pencil grip etc etc, he will lose interest and get fed up. It's counterproductive - you risk putting him off totally.

Sit back, watch him make his own way...much more relaxing and fun. And stop worrying about everyone else's kid!

The intellectual ability to understand what he needs to do is not the same as the fine motor skills needed to actually do it.
He does not need to ve doing anything. Push him and you will totally put him off. Leave him be.

As a big picture, there might be an issue here - not really to do with pens or scissors or card-making, those are all just little instances that could distract from the main point.

The main point is, does he have anything he likes doing? - anything where he shows initiative, or interest, or focus? Because while a three-year-old not wanting to draw (specifically) isn't a problem, a very passive three-year-old who doesn't want to get to grips with the world at all might be a problem.

What does he like & show interest in?

My DS is your DS twin, I have done all the correct things to try to encourage him and twice he agreed to try and HE CAN DO IT, he choses not to. My DD is 17mo and holds a pencil better, she also puts on her socks and shoes, I do DS's, I have caught her feeding him.

I put it down to him being a mini man and why do for himself what he can get a woman (currently me) to do for him.

At preschool it seems all the other children have art/craft pictures to take home and every time I hopefully search for DS's bookbag and, shock horror it's empty again!! At least he enjoys play doh. I guess he just isn't that way.

ds1 has difficulties with a lot of what you've mentioned, i don't fight with him but go at his pace with learning stuff... he's 4 and is due to be assessed by OT for dyspraxia. He's very resistant to doing anything he finds difficult. We have much better success by gently suggesting and letting him come round to the idea on his own.

At 3.5 i wouldn't have bothered with any of the things you've mentioned, i'd cut paper for him and let him scribble. ds1 has only started drawing recognisabe pictures in the last few weeks and he was 4 in July... he started holding his pencil properly over the summer as i told him 'Teacher will want you to do it when you start school but i can show you now if you like and you could practice before you start school and she'd be really impressed'.

He loves letters and writing but it's an intense physical, whole body challange for him... he was writing his christmas cards today and before every single letter he had to rearrange his whole body, the letters are all over the place size wise and he had space issues but the end results were (just about) legible [proud]

He still has trauma with dressing and undressing and can't manage a lot of things on his own... wintery clothes are a nightmare, i'm having to go into the classroom and get his hat and scarf and gloves on him as i'd be waiting over half an hour if i waited outside for him... luckily the teacher is aware of his issues and lets him get on with it without trying to rush him until i turn up to help. When i get into the classroom he's usually sat on the floor with everything arranged around him looking flustered!

He never did arts and crafts at playschool... they just let him play with toys rather than try as he wasn't interested... he's getting into that stuff at school now though and seems a bit more enthusuastic.

Just give your ds time and do the things he enjoys, not the things you feel he should be able to do

you are trying too hard ds was 4 when he started school - his baseline assessment stated he could not hold a pencil (let alone try to write his name) - he was an A grade gcse student.don't worry.

A child that age is too small to learn in any way other than play IMO. You know in many countries they don't start formal education (as in learning to read/write) until 7 or so, and their kids overtake ours by 11 or 12?

Small kids should be left to explore - trying to control how they do that is in my experience totally counter productive. Let him enjoy the world around him, and the rest will come by itself.

If he feels criticised or even overly praised for doing as you want then he may feel anxious about just having a go at things at all, in case you don't like how he does it. Let him be a small child, he has all the time in the world for formal learning.

We need to learn patience as mothers. We have unrealistic expectations of three year olds or even five year olds. In many countries children do not start formal education until the age of seven.

Young children need to build up their large muscles before they can control a pencil. Take your child to the park, or a soft play centre or swimming if its cold.

My son had no pen control at the end of reception. He saw an OT, he has weird tendons that make it harder to control a pencil.

In year 4 he is in the top groups for everything. An inablity to write neatly hasn't stopped him.

Agree with others - chill! He's only little, don't pressure him. Play what HE wants to do, he'll learn it all in time.

You can't teach a 3yo.
All you can do is give them lots of opportunities to play, explore and have new experiences.

Get down on the floor, watch them quietly, let them lead and follow them. Let them know you are interested in what they are doing, but don't break their concentration by asking questions or trying to show them what to do.
Give lots and lots of praise. Don't point out what they've done wrong (who cares if the house has no windows) and try to avoid saying anything with a 'but' in it (as in "That's a lovely picture of a horse, but why has it got 6 legs?").

The most important thing is that you both have as much fun as possible.

I agree with almost all that except for the praise part. There is now a body of surprising, but very reputable research showing that praising kids is usually bad for them. It seemingly makes them worry about whether they are pleasing you, rather than keeping an intrinsic interest in what they are doing. They can start to be worried about trying new or difficult things in favour of the easier or familiar, where they know they are likely to succeed. Even telling them they're clever or bright seems to make them do worse than not saying anything at all. It's only helpful to praise if they make a serious effort at something and you praise only that effort (and especially when it hasn't paid off, because that way they learn hard work is valuable and taking risks in trying new and hard things is okay). I find that really hard because, I think like most of us, when I say "well done, that's fantastic!" what I mean is "I love you unconditionally". But I'm trying really hard now to describe what he does in a tone of interest ("you pushed the blue train over that bridge, didn't you?" "You used a lot of blue crayon in that picture didn't you?") instead. Which in a way is engaging more with him than a blanket "fantastic!" anyway. It means he knows I am noting what he does.

Otherwise I think piprabbit is spot on right. Directing play is really bad news for small children IMO, because they learn from interest and engaging with the world around them. The best way to encourage that is to pay attention and show interest in what they do, but let them direct it.

perfectstorm is right - I should have said that praise needs to be specific "I have really enjoyed building towers with you today" and not vague "You are a very good boy". Perhaps I should have replaced the phrase "lots and lots of praise", with "lots and lots of positive attention"?

My ds1 could hold a pencil perfectly at 3.5 and do tiny 'writing' squiggles. Now he is 5, he can't do it anymore...grips the pencil and needs correction every time he picks it up, struggles with the fine motor stuff.

At 3.5 he couldn't use scissors because I kept forgetting to get kiddie one. Now he's 5 he's great at it.

Don't worry. It will come. Don't push it (unless he is going to school and needs to practise handwriting!)

Panzee, pegs on a plate sound like a great idea! DD has also said she wants beads for Christmas, so my mum's giving her some - bead-threading is supposed to be another useful one, isn't it.

DD is 3.9 and draws a lot - recently she's started wanting to write letters, too, though, which has made me worry about pencil grip. You keep reading that they mustmustmust get it right from the very start or there will be no end of difficulty etc.etc. - but there's no way I'm going to stand over her and nag her and take all the fun out of it.

I did come across a picture in a book, though, showing the right way to hold a pencil, and when I casually showed her that she seemed more impressed by it.

Still, she says the proper way is uncomfortable for her, and I think it's probably because her muscles aren't developed yet - so plates and clothespegs etc. sound like a good idea.

Lots and lots of school age children (ir FS2 4-5 yos) IME can't use scissors.

I would expect him to be able to undress etc tho. Forget the writing and cutting, plenty of young DC don't want to do these, and concentrate on dressing and undressing which will actually be really useful in school next Sept.

Agree re Playdough, also playing with things like bead threading, Duplo etc.

None of my 3 DCs have ever done anything that I have tried to teach them (or so it feels, I expect I have taught them some things.)

I have had to get other people (family members, expensive swimming teachers) to teach them things like riding bikes, swimming etc.

EG: Swimming

Me: DD that was fab darling, well done. If you straighten your legs you will find it easier to stay afloat.

DD (aged 8): They are straight.

Me: Um . . . well they are a bit straight (lie) but they need to be completely straight

DD: They are completely straight!

Me: No darling, they aren't.

DD: They ARE. They ARE straight!!

< lesson truncated >

Some weeks later ...

Swimming teacher: Straighten your legs, BalloonSlayer's DD

DD: < straightens legs>

The End

Basically, sometimes they act up because you are the parent.

lol Balloon... dd was the same with swimming... wouldn't let me teach her at all but her swimming teacher gets great results from her and told me 'She's easy to teach'

Funnily enough ds1 lets me teach him to swim though and he's usually the one who doesn't like to learn new things

My 3 1/2 DS is the same. He wont try anything until he is sure he can do it - so I don't push. Sometimes he will dress himself but it is a whole heap of reverse psychology and work from me. "I don't think a 3 1/2 year old can take his pyjama top off. I'm going to go out of the room now and when I come back I'll take your top off for you" Cue me going out of the room for a while. I come back and it's done. "Did Daddy help take your top off? Who helped you? Wow, you did that all by yourself? Are you very proud of yourself?" As you can imagine it takes ages! Only for weekends when we have time.

As for arts and crafts, that rarely happens, although he does love making pictures with stickers - sometimes!