Disciplining a 4 and 3 year old

[bootsforall]

Would be great to hear what anyone thinks about this, sorry if it's long.

I have a 5 year old girl and a 3 year old boy - really lovely kids. Stress levels for the last few months have though been unbelievably high, mainly since my daughter started school, in Sept. She has all the usual tiredness, plus my boy is going through an difficult stage - tantrums, defiance, over tiny things like being asked to come for breakfast.

Both DH and I had awful childhoods, so we're big on the kids feeling loved. For discipline, we try to set boundaries, and be firm (naughty step etc) but neither of us likes sending to rooms, and DH hates shouting, preferring to explain things instead.

Today i completely lost it with my daughter. She was refusing to wear her school uniform (livid flowery jumper instead). She had a tantrum, Dh went into explanation mode, she yelled even more. I went from a firm 'no' to eventually really screaming at her while she was sitting on the stairs. I dropped her off for the school bus with her still raging furiously and very upset. I hugged and kissed her goodbye, but this little white face went away.

They were very tired (up far too early), and I was too, but I feel terrible (came home and wept). How far do you all discipline your five year olds? Should I have just let her wear the bloody jumper and not reacted? The school is fairly laid. Or do other 5 year olds understand by now that 'no means no and that's it?' Are DH and I - because of our own difficult experiences - not being firm enough? It would be so good to know what others think.

TBH I always think that you don't do your children any favours at all by not disciplining them for an early age.

I don't mean slapping, but firmly telling them when they are doing wrong, and following through with any threats quickly and decisively.

So with the jumper thing, I would have said, I'm going to count to 10 (or whatever) and if you don't have your school jumper on then, then (insert appropriate consequence - it must be soon, so the same day) and if she didn't put the jumper on, I would have stuck by the threat, so no tv/pudding/whatever.

My ds is 16, and apart from the usual tantrums, he was always very well behaved. I'm shocked at how poorly disciplined some children are these days (eg in Starbucks the other day, a little girl kept throwing her shoes around, one time her shoe hit my coffee & spilt it and all the mother was doing was threatening something they were doing in two weeks ffs). She was about 4, so old enough to know better.

Far better to be firm and fair than overly accomodating imo.

My dh just used to have to look sternly at ds and say he was disappointed to bring him into line. We never had to lay a finger on him, and, like you, found sending to his room counterproductive.

Hi boots. I have the same age gap but mine are 2 and 4 at the moment. I also had a shitty childhood but I find it hard not to shout. We prefer to explain first, which is great if you have time, but sometimes when I've asked DS1 to get dressed for the 17th time in one morning I do lose the plot and make him get dressed outside of the room so that there are no distractions.

I think we need to have another chat with him and maybe get a sticker chart going or soemthing to try and cut down on the stress in the mornings.

FWIW the mornings are the worst part of the day and don't beat yourself up too much for shouting. I'm not proud of it but I do it more than I'd like (mainly because the pair of them are so bloody noisy they wouldn't hear me at a normal talking level anyway!)

Sometimes you have to just be strict, and to the point. I wouldn't be able to get away with sending DS1 to school in a non-uniform jumper so your DD does need to get her head around getting ready if that's the school policy. Maybe have a talk to her about it tonight and explain what has to happen in the mornings and that if she doesn't co-operate she'll lose something she likes? (In my DS1's case this is his 20mins of computer time.)

Agree with mumblechum. We also do the counting to 10 thing. And whilst we do raise voices sometimes we have never (and never intend to) slap our children.

Thanks to you both, appreciate the replies. We do the counting thing,plus the naughty step, but at the moment neither seems to work very well. I sometimes wonder if I expect too much from them. Plus I'm pretty (well extremely) angsty about not repeating the yelling, screaming etc of my own childhood. Or as you say the physical end of it.

Bintofbohemia it is really helpful to know that others with crap backgrounds also lose it with them at times and this does not mean total failure at parenthood. Good luck if you decide to do a sticker chart for mornings, the single time I attempted this it failed spectacularly as firstly I kept forgetting about it, and then when I did remember the toddler put the stickers in the cat litter. God. Must admit that at times I find motherhood to be one massive pool of stress / exhaustion / guilt trip / feelings of inadequacy.

All was fine on return from school today, had a calm bedtime etc. Tomorrow she will be wearing the uniform - firm and to the point as you say, no negotiations. I will try to keep DH out of it as to be honest his explanations can complicate things especially when I'm trying to get them out of the bloody door.

Thanks again and good luck to you both.

Hey boots. I was very lucky with my parents and childhood and still at times I shout at my boys (3 and 4) I always feel crap after it but Im human. I do apologise to them for shouting but not for what I am giving out about. We also do counting and the bold step but I find positive rewards work much better. Its just, unfortunately, much easier to give out sometimes. I have also learned its counter productive to overexplain things to them. Some things of course you have to explain but day to day issues should be a case of 'because Im your mom and I asked you!' Im just saying this because DS1 has become so argumentative and everything is a debate/negotiation with him as we over discussed things. Since the other children came along I dont have the time and DS2 is more likely to do things because he is asked.

Glad you had a better evening with them. I often find if you explain what's expected of them in advance (quite a lot in advance!) it works better. But I have found myself saying "BECAUSE I SAID SO!" a lot more than I thought that I ever would.

"Must admit that at times I find motherhood to be one massive pool of stress / exhaustion / guilt trip / feelings of inadequacy."

Oh yes. I dunno if it's worse because we know what happens if you screw up your kids, but I beat myself up all the time about what a bad tempered rubbish old cow I am. THey seem to be doing alright though, and if you think about how your parents treated you, you wouldn't do the same to yours, woudl you? A bit of shouting now and again is not in the same ball park really.

Hope you had more luck this morning!

children need bounadries to be happy and secure. To me though it just sounds like your daughter is really exhausted - maybe try early nights?

ps.can you both put the uniform out the night before

I dont hvae much experience but recently I have been empathising (sp?) with ds first, if he is getting mad about something, it really works well actually (sometimes).

So, in your example you say "DD WANTS to wear her jumper, DD REALLY wants to wear her jumper dont you, you really want to wear it" you show her that you understand why she is mad, there is no explanation she just wants to wear her jumper. Then when she realising that yes mummy understands, she knows what I want THEN you explain but actually you can't wear your jumper because you are going to school and everyone wears uniform in school - gosh you will be the only one there not in uniform etc etc. I got it from "happiest toddler on the block" book and I only briefly read it but he responds immediately and stops crying when I do it.

The theory is that you show the other person you know what they are going through and so they dont get frustrated because of that - it doesn't mean you give in to them but it shows them that you understand, they you explain WHY they have to do it.