I don't know how to cope with my son anymore :(

[starsareshining]

I'm sick of being spoken to like I'm a piece of shit and being hit or having things thrown at me at every opportunity. He's almost 3, a very bright little boy and his behaviour until about a month ago was great, very easily managed.

I'm currently building up the courage to see a doctor about a fairly serious mental health problem as well as SAD which I believe I suffer from, so this couldn't have happened at a worse time. This time last year I was sleeping on the settee all day or crying and I'm trying so hard not to let it get to that stage this year. I'm feeling an odd mixture of extreme anger and extreme guilt.

We very rarely go out because I just can't face a lot of things and it takes me quite a while to build up the courage to do anything. I feel absolutely drained by it all. Currently, I'm struggling to find the energy to get us dressed and fed and just do normal day to day things, so I really can't deal with this. He constantly shouts at me and demands that I spend every single second of my time doing things with him. He has never been clingy before and doesn't actually enjoy hugging me or being around me that much, it just seems to be another excuse to be vile.

If I even gently tell him nt to do something, he throws things at my face, screams at me, hits me etc. I woke up feeling more optimistic than usual today so decided that we'd get on a bus and go to the library to take our seriously overdue books back. I've been to anxious to get on a bus and go out and then he was so naughty that I'm now not taking him. Every single day he just drags me down. I had to fight to get into the shower, then he started throwing things at the glass shower door, screaming that it wasn't made of glass and hitting tiles which are currently hanging off the wall, knowing that I've told him to stay away from them. Any time I try to tell him off, he tells me off for having the nerve to say anything to him. I really don't enjoy spending time with him anymore. Mentally, I'm already very fragile and I honestly can't take this.

I keep telling myself that I'll look into some more structured discipline and try to sort it out, but when i finally get a minute alone, I don't even have the energy to move, let alone do anything useful. I wish I could send him to nursery now, as it'd probably be really good for both of us, but he won't have a place til next September.

I just feel like lying on the floor and crying and never getting up again. I'm letting him down so badly and I don't know what to do anymore :(

I know that these problems seem minor compared to some that are posted here, but I just can't do this on top of everything else. I'm getting to a stage where I'm just accepting him hitting me and not even reacting because I feel like a zombie.

I'm sure somebody has already suggested this, but get him into preschool. My DS won't start nursery till next September but he goes two mornings a week to preschool and it will be free for him from January - probably the same for your son. If you're not getting out much with him at the moment it'll give him a chance to burn off some energy and give you a break as well.

"We get into these ridiculous agruments. He throws something at me and I tell him to stop it. He says 'no, you stop it', so I cleverly respond with 'no, you are being naughty, stop it', he slaps me and says 'No Mommy, YOU STOP IT'."

You know, to me it's all in there. He is telling you what he needs: for you to stop his behaviour, because he can't do it himself.

My dd used to be like this, with a lot of pent up anger (she would certainly have thrashed any room she was put into when in a tantrum- my little brother in a similar situation once kicked his way through a wooden door with his bare feet- ouch!).

Dd certainly couldn't control it herself, so she needed me to do it. What I used to do was the moment she hit me or tried to hit me I'd grab her hands and just hold her very firmly and keep repeating in a calm voice "No, I will not let you hurt me, no I cannot let you hurt me". This way she could not hit or bite (as I had her arms and could pull her mouth away) and couldn't get at anything to throw it. I got the feeling that actually hurting me was something that was so scary to her that I needed to protect her from that- and to show her that I could protect her from that. The problem with this approach from your pov is that it requires a fair amount of physical energy that may be very hard for your to muster if you are not feeling well. It also requires enough strength to be able to fake calmness even if you are not feeling calm. But it was very well worth it.

Anyway, the good news is that dd grew out of her anger and is now a perfectly civilised teen. And my db is a very civilised adult.

Cory - really good advice, imo.

Reminds me of a technique a friend gave me once (I have written about it before on Mumsnet, so sorry for repeating myself - but I found it so useful!)

When your child starts trying to hit you, make him sit on the ground in front of you, and sort of cross your legs in front of him, so you are sitting cross-legged with him in the space between your legs. Hold his arms crossed in front of him so he can't hit you. In this way you are giving him a hug from the back. Mind your chin in case he jerks his head back.

This had an extraordinary effect on my son, aged 7. It meant he didn't have to see me (as he was very angry with me) and he couldn't hit me. At the same time, it seemed to comfort him (because, like Cory I really think that a tantruming child is often quite distressed), and it calmed him almost instantly. After a very few times he started asking for 'back cuddles'.

I hope you can understand this description of how to do it.

PS Like Cory's child, my son, aged 15, is lovely now - most of the time!

Interesting you should mention back cuddles, grannie: when dd was hitting and kicking, I would hold her arms, get behind her and sit down on a chair, using one leg wrapped around her legs to stop her kicking and keep the other on the ground for leverage. So sounds almost exactly the same.

Starsareshining, please do try to go to that Surestart centre and also investigate Homestart in your area. I am sure your HV could advise. I know that they get a bad press on MN, but my HV really helped me massively when I was struggling. She referred us to a child psychologist who was very helpful as I was finding my DD uncontrollable, and she helped us find a way into the local Childrens Centre too. They really do exist to help people in difficult situations like you. Do you get on with your HV?

Yes, sounds the same, Cory.

I think you need to focus on yourself rather than your ds. My dcs would go absolutely beserk if they were trapped inside for weeks and I'm sure that is what is behind your ds's behaviour. You need to do whatever you can to get well enough to get out. And don't cancel outings as a punishment.

I have to admit that the one thing I won't use as punishment for DS whenever he's playing up is refusing to take him to playgroup - mostly because I need to go as much, if not more, than he does. But going 2 mornings a week does give us both a bit of respite - sure, I'm still in the same place as him but he has other DC to play with and isn't hanging around my knees the whole time.

Maybe there is an element of cabin fever for your DS as well.

Yes, I have thought that myself. When I say that we don't go anywhere, I meant that we don't go anywhere during the day. I don't realy have the confidence to go to places on my own. I know that I'd be much happier to go out if I had a friend with children to go to plces with. In reality, he goes to a play centre with my dad once a week when I go food shopping, he goes to see his dad and grandparents twice a week and there are various children there, we go to my parents for tea 2 or 3 times a week, he often goes to the creche at my parents church and we often go on a little outing with them on Saturday afternoons and always go to a cafe for a nice little treat afterwards. So when I think about it, it's not as though we never go anywhere! I did get into a habit of going to surestart twice a week but am finding it pretty difficult now.

I invited a friend over last night for the first time in about a year. It was great. It's the first time I've relaxed in conversation with someone other than my partner/family for years. It felt great to talk to someone normally and just have fun. So I'm feeling much, much better today. We've had quite a lot of fun this morning already and his behaviour has been much better, probably because I'm noticably happy and having fun with him. It must be awful when he knows that I'm miserable.

You've all mentioned this child holding technique. I am very good at staying calm, it's something I've had to learn to do as I was prone to aggressive outbursts a few years ago. It's not quite like that when he's hitting me though. I've seen other children have a tantrum and he's never really acted like that. It isn't as though he flies into a huge rage and is unable to stop himself with lots of hitting and screaming and a red face. He knows what he's doing, he just does it repeatedly. Then he can walk off for a minute, perhaps find something to throw at me and then come back to hit me a little bit more. It isn't as though they are non-stop blows and I need to hold his arms down to protect myself. It's more like he thinks he can boss me around all the time over very minor things and if I don't do what he says, he'll give me a smack.

I'm definitely taking your advice on not cancelling outings though. I said it in desperation because there wasn't much I could do from the shower and thought that I should do it once I'd said it. The really annoying thing is that he knows the door is made of glass as we talk about how sharp glass is all the time. One of the roads we walk down to get to my parents house is always full of broken glass, so he knows how important it is to be careful with glass. Instead of listening to me, as he used to, he argues that it's not made of glass because the white lines on it are wood. Obviously, they're just a sort of pattern on the glass, but he justifies what he's doing by repeatedly telling me that there is white wood in there so it won't break.

So glad to hear you had a good evening yesterday. That's great.
As for his behaviour, what Colditz said about him feeling that you're maybe not completely in charge and so he thinks that he is, sounds as if it might fit. But, in my experience, reestablishing a relationship in which parents and children respect each other but where the parent takes the final responsibility isn't about punishment to "show who's boss". In fact, I can remember how to me as a kid that was a provocation: like shouting during a prayer in church - something which I found somehow magnetically attractive ... showing that you can step over any boundaries. I get that behaviour from dd. She is right: I can't actually STOP her from doing ANYTHING. It's all about the basis, so that she doesn't feel she wants to do this kind of thing, but there's something more interesting going on for her, and she's stopped by her own developing conscience and common sense and pragmatism. I think all the work you're doing caring for your son and having a good relationship with him as an individual - when you're both in a really difficult situation - will actually solve it in the end. That's what makes the difference ... even if you have to wait quite a long time to see the improvement. Best wishes and hugs

I'm sorry from what you're describing it doesn't sound like it's ALL because you're struggling at the moment. His behaviour doesn't sound like a regular tantrum to me and perhaps there is something going on with him which is compounding how you are feeling?

Talking to the GP is certainly the best place to start. Does your mum think he is just having a tantrum? She will have witnessed much of his lashing out. Talk to a HV as well.

Playgroups are all well and good but if he behaves that badly there it certainly won't help how you are feeling. What about a walk at the same time everyday when you are feeling most able?

Can you shower when he's alseep? If you can remove those triggers it might give you some breathing space.

Do feel for you OP. Hope you get the help and support you need. x

My mom has been quite surprised by his behaviour towards me. It isn't really directed at anyone else. His dad was really surprised to hear what's been happening, but then he wouldn't misbehave with him because he's only with him for four hours a week.

He's fine at playgroup. He behaves really when whenever we're out and is lovely with other children.

I suppose I can shower when he's asleep, but I'd just gotten us into this fairly nice routine of getting ready in the morning. It wasn't very good before but he seemed to really enjoy the routine and being able to play in his new big boy bedroom while I was in there, then bringing me the towel at the end. I don't know why that changed.

Another thing that sets him off is when I do something that he wants to do. It can be something utterly ridiculous, such as moving a cup which he wanted to move. He often doesn't even tell me that he wanted to move it, or I ask whether he wants to and he refuses to answer, then shouts and hits me when I do it. The only way to stop him acting like that is to put it back where it was and let him do it, which I don't really want to do as it happens quite often throughout the day and I'd spend ages doing things twice. Is that quite common too? I feel like I'm walking on eggshells, trying not to upset him or cause another ten minutes of hitting and shouting.

Another example, he's just told me that he wanted to watch pingu. I told him that he couldn't because it's almost time for a nap. He responded by kicking a colouring book. I didn't say anything about it so he did it about 5 more times, then told me that he wasn't kicking it, just walking. I told him that I know he was kicking it and it's a bit silly because it means he won't be able to play with it if it breaks, so he picked it up and threw it into the kitchen. I asked why and he said 'cos YOU are being naughty'. I don't even have to say much to get that kind of reaction!

No, you see the moving cup thing I can't relate to at all. Totally unhealthy for your relationship to be walking on eggshells like that. It must feel so personal as he doesn't direct it at anyone else.

Yep, mine does this too. I ask him something, either if he wants it or if he can do something, no response. I ask again, no response. I do it myself and then suddenly there's a "NOOOooo!! MY do it" and possibly teary tantrum. (I have to admit, I don't respond well to that and it involves a stern reprimand to stop making that awful noise, and a Look.) If I am in the middle of doing whatever it is, then I let him take over the minute he says he wants to do it; if he hits tantrum stage because it's already done then the reprimand is required.

I think you following through on your withdrawal of going out privileges was correct once you'd made that threat - and if it was the only thing you had, then I can't blame you for it - perhaps next time you should spray him with the shower? Actually, my DS would love that and it would put him in a better mood already, so he would stop being bad.

I am glad you had a better time when you were more relaxed and having fun - I think that is the big clue, maybe - your state of mind/feelings is really coming off you in waves and it is affecting him. Perhaps he is really pushing the boundaries because he wants the Mummy he knows properly to return, instead of the anxious scared one? Sort of a tough love approach? Just an idea.

Some of it is normal toddler boundary-pushing though - the Pingu/colouring book sounds like a normal event to me - but the knock on punishment for that would be no more children's tv that day.

That moving cup thing is very familiar. Those control tantrums are terrible and absolutely characteristic of age 3 in my experience. Never found a way round it except giving them more control in other areas and lots of praise for tiny bits of good behaviour.
I know you've had a lot of advice on discipline and punishment but I'd like to suggest something else - reminding him a lot that you love him exactly the same whatever he does. I used to threaten to make my wayward boy into 'love porridge' when he said he hated me or whatever. Going out of the house was absolutely essential to keeping him relatively calm, too. Groups, anything. One child development book I read said the best thing you can do to cope wiht a 3 year old is get a childminder! they are so into clashing with you and they don't really know why, so punishment isn't always the only/best response and you can get trapped in it.

ok just me then with the moving thing. But good to hear the other examples as it puts it into context for OP.

good point cockles, reassurance of love is very necessary! DS has taken to saying the people "don't like him" whenever someone gets upset or tells him off - but a minute to give him a cuddle and remind him that of course we like him and love him makes him happy again.

The moving a cup thing sounds awful to me. Is there any way you can just ignore it so it doesn't escalate?

I've sliced some bread for example and ds1 says he wanted to do it so i can understand that. I react by saying 'sorry, too late. if you don't want it I'll eat it.' Tough bananas basically!

I wouldn't ask him 'why was that so bad?/why did you do that?' myself. Just try to distract immediately with SOMETHING AMAZING...! (and then show him a book/ toy/ sing a song)

With destruction of toys perhaps i'd put it in the bin. Once ds1 saw me put something in the bin a few times he seemed to stop.

We´ve definitely had the moving the cup thing - lots!
I love Cockles´ love porridge idea. I´m going to try that!