Will the cuts affect your family size?

[highlystrung]

We have three children and tbh I'd always hankered after having four - being from a family of four kids myself. But since the cuts, and more specifically, the university funding changes, I think we'll be sticking at three. We've already lost our tax credits and the child benefit will go - but the real killer for us is the prospect of having to fork out £100k or thereabouts for each of them to go to Uni. Could always stop them doing their homework so they flunk their GCSEs and save us a fortune I spose, but failing that it looks like we're in an American situation where we have to start saving in to a college fund for each of them. Panicking really - what with trying to pay the mortgage and paying in to a pension, but part of me also thinks that it is fair enough that people should consider if they can afford their kids before they have them. Anyone else letting the changes determine how many kids they have?

I ink a lot of you are completely over thinking the decision to have another child or not. We tried for DC number 2 and fell pregnant with triplets. So now we have 4 under 2.2. Like many of you we had decided 2 children would be our limit financially but I can tell you that you just do manage with less money.
I'm not pro people popping out more children left, right and centre but if you want another baby just go for it and everything will be fine.
Yes, I do wonder what will happen when they learn to drive (imagine insuring 3 17 year old boys?) and go to university but i'm sure it will work out ok.

"100k or thereabouts for each of them to go to uni"

Really? Where did you get this figure? I beleive it's 70k for a medic in the most common figure, so where did you get 100k each from?

Triplets, how lovely. I'm so glad we had five over all these years (26 years so far). It's fun and people just manage on the basis of what income they have.

£100K? I estimate it's cost about £10k a year on the current fee level including fees, rent, food, books, travel etc but they are very lucky children. I've paid them £100 a week by standing order plus paid their university fees and rent in addition and that's been about what I was paying for them each for school fees anyway on the basis of an agreement they will take on no debt as I wanted them to graduate debt free as I did. Indeed I think due to various post grad things I've paid for 12 years for the older 3 so far post 18 but I didn't have to (except our divorce settlement actually does say by court order that I pay the university fees and costs whoever the children live with but I was happy to anyway).

It may be £9k fees plus say £5k maintenance plus £3k rent which is £17k a year for 3 years = £51k not £100k but if fees rose above £9k and if we have inflation appluied to the £9k over the next 10 years until today's 7 year olds are 17 then it could well be £100k a year by then all in but no one has to pay a penny except for the students when they reach the age.

What we mustn't have is an illegal scheme where by parents or childreh who do pay now pay more. That would be unfair and must be stamped on now before it takes any hold.

Triplets? Congratulations!

Of course you can only plan so much but I have never been the type to say "it will work out somehow".
I have a plan, a plan B and a plan C and then if circumstances change suddenly well, I'll start working on a plan D

But I really do not understand the university worry - the 100k for uni are not to be paid upfront - if parents cannot help in any way, then the money will be paid afterwards when the person in question earns enough. My friend in Norway has had about 100k to pay off as parents offered no help(same as most of her friends), and it has not bothered her a bit - she still chose the career she has always wanted (journalism, so not exactly well paid when you start).

if you want another baby just go for it and everything will be fine

Hmmm. I'm not sure that's always the case. We would be absolutely stuffed if we had another child - like I said earlier we'd not be able to afford to live on one salary yet childcare fees would tip us over the edge.

We wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage on our (modest, ex-council) house, basically. So where would we go? There's precious little affordable or social housing available.

Seems like a big, big gamble to me (or at least for us).

University fees don't come into it though (as mentioned earlier).

The only thing you have to pay up front is living costs - the tuition fees aren't free at the moment anyway, though they are heavily discounted. In Australia everyone lives at home whilst they go to uni to save money, maybe this will happen more in the UK?

There seems to be completely wrong information on this thread. NOBODY has to pay £100k to go to uni - where on earth did that figure come from?

The parents don't have to pay ANY uni fees AT ALL.
The student, once they have graduated, pays the fees afterwards, and even then they ONLY pay if and when they are earning a decent salary.

The only financial consideration to think about upfront is living costs, and that is just the same as it was, not affected by the fees change in the slightest.

There are many financial considerations to think about when planning a family, but uni fees are not one of them.
Anyway, the policy could change again several times in the next 18 years!

We helped put our eldest 2 DC through university. The key word for us is 'helped'. We bought books, stocked them up with food, and provided the odd £100 when necessary. We also provided a bed and food in the holidays so that they could save money for the next term. Other than that they made use of loans. They wanted a university education and IMo they should pay for it.
Both now have very good careers.
Number 3 did not go to university but earns has much as the others, so financially is in a better position. He saved a deposit and moved into is own home at 23.

We have 3 teenagers still at home. They know that if they choose the university route they do it as adults, and will foot the bill....not us!

Couples planing the size of their family should not worry about what will happen when DC are 18.

But I do pity the next lib dem councilor/candidate who asks me for my vote.

I also take issue with the 'it'll all be fine' line.

Are we sure that there will be enough water in the SE for all these new people? The SE being where they are likely to end up working. Will there be enough homes? Will food be even more expensive as all the fields will have been dug up to build new homes?

How will we manage with an even larger population?

Particularly if you have girls there is a very good chance that they may never pay their loan off because of career breaks etc. (the Browne Committee assumed 40% of graduates wouldn't pay the full amount back and that may be an underestimate - see recent IFS and HEPI reports). In that scenario, there is no reason why you wouldn't go for the most expensive course £9k(because it wouldn't cost you a penny more because of the write-off at the end). Now is also the time for mid-career adults to go to Uni as they too are unlikely to ever pay their loan off.

It may make a lot more sense for parents to save to help their kids with a deposit on a flat/house rather than saving for tuition fees.

at the moment you can get a loan to pay your fees, accom and living costs. It comes in at certain points in the year. SLC isnt brilliant at admin and often pays late if at all. You pay it after graduating once earn a certain amount. In future if plans go ahead it will be drawn down differently but you are right that it is the students who will have the debt not the parent. It is a hard decision i think to have young adults running up huge debts. At present up to 2011 entry fees are pegged at around £3k per year and will remain so for duration of course. From 2012 fees look like being £7-9k p year of course. So modern languages are 4 years, vets 5 to 6, engineering 4 etc etc. Plus other costs , most people assume that accom costs will rise too. Then you need to eat, etc. I'm alculating £100k for fees alone for my three dcs.

Vince Cable has been less than clear in today's papers. He is saying some universities might opt out because they want more money BUT he is omitting to say that the entirety of the £9k student fees solely replaces the money the state is taking away frmo the universities in central funding. The fees are not in any sense extra money for the universities so if the institutions want to fund more free places etc they will need to charge more than £9k in order just to keep going and fund those places. British students do not make anything like people do in the US sufficient to pay large sums back to their own university in later life.

Personally I'll be aiming for my boys to gain a trade (a bit small at mo), be able to speak well and have a good vocab. Good focus on life and enjoy hobbies and above all have practical skills. All the friends I know living the life have a trade/experience over a degree anyway.

The uni thing has gone mad so many friends went now doing admin jobs because their degree was in something pointless.

I also think uni is for the very bright and those who will acheive well from it. People should go uni with the course relevant to job prospects not because they fancy the course. A good general education def pays but this idea that uni is for all is ridiculas anyway how do you know that your children will be that acedemic anyway?

Shouldnt we all be planning for the future anyway - isnt that would our parents/grandparents used to do? Two children are fine for us to have a good standard of life. I'm sure that if my children were that gifted by the time they leave school someone would be able to offer some form of sponsorship.

We only have one child, partly for financial reasons. We wanted to be independent of things like child benefit, tax credits etc and we also have to pay for care for elderly relatives and other expenses in our extended family. I am hoping that we may be able to afford one more.

My children will be paying off their own uni fees though

If people stop having kids then who will look after us in our dottage?!

I think we should be encouraging big families, then train the kids up as care workers so we will all be looked after when we 90yrs old and shuffling about in our dressing gowns swigging gin on the sly.

What will a university education cost or how it will be funded by the time my DC are 18. They are tiny right now, so I can't get too stressed about it.

The Child Benefit thing was blown out of proportion. Its hardly any money and if you are struggling financially or well off it just gets absorbed.

I am more upset the HIP and SSMG grants are being cut. They are helpful when you are actually pregnant.

My issue is paying for unemployed, junkies, alcoholics and generally lazy families who pop kid after kid out by bloke after bloke and never ever paid into the system and have no intention of EVER paying into the system.

Lazy, tight, parents produce the same type of children and they get priority nursery places as they are " vulnerable and in need" hah! they get free meds, free school dinners and the rest!

Its disgusting and should be stopped.

How much do Americans pay for college?

I was in the US a week or so ago and saw a newspaper article (sorry can't remember where) mentioning that the top US unis charged $50,000 per year.

Yes it has made us rethink our family size. We had 3 and was hoping for 4 but don't think we will now.

I have 3 DCs and would like another at some point if money allows (bigger house/extension...car...etc as someone mentioned further down) but honestly, university fees won't come into the decision. With the estimated cost of £50k we couldn't afford to pay one child through uni - its almost 2 year's income for us!

I worry more about affording shoes, clothes, food, mortgage etc than possible uni fees in the future.

There's a chance they won't all want to go. There's also always a chance they won't be smart enough.

If they do want to go we'll help them if we can and they can pay the rest off once they are working. Who knows what the system will be in 8 years, 10 years, 15 years or 18 years time when mine would be looking to go?

No, I only have the one child as it is. Unless the cuts suddenly lead to a reducation in infertility I can't see this changing.

I worked the whole time I was at uni. 5 days a week cleaning or bar work and also full time in summer hols. I got a good degree and had a riot too. Had the dreaded loan and a partial grant.

I don't like the price rises but have friends in the US who think it's hilarious we should be angry about having to pay £9,000 a year when some of them pay far more. Even with the maximum + air fares they say it will be much cheaper for thier kids to come here to study. This doesn't make fact that the Lib Dems made a promise they couldn't keep OK but I do think we are still pretty lucky.

Also I did an MA for 4 years and frankly I could have done it faster if it weren't for long holidays etc. Most degrees could be done in half the time if people worked. You can go out, get pissed night after night, work your socks off, have affairs, join club, act, play football, whatever....all at the same time and take less time. I do think the time taken for most degrees (including mine) is an indulgence and we have got too complacent and comfortable. I did all the above for 15 years after uni too whilst working full time. It's not impossible.

PS Before anyone says - I know getting jobs isn't always that easy but there is an attitude issue too.

Some students have always had an attitude issue. I did not go to university, but people of my age who did thought it was fine to claim dole for both their summer and easter hols. In those days there was plenty of unskilled factory and farm work around.