are you doing a phd? if so why? what will you gain from it?

[hatwoman]

I'm toying with the idea...and would be very interested in hearing why people are doing theirs. what stage are you at in your career? what made you decide to do one and where do you hope it will take you? are you terrified that it will be impossible to get into academia (if that's your aim - and esp if you're not really able to move the length of the country because of family)? or perhaps you're doing it for pure interest? I'd love to hear more.

fwiw I'm mid-career in a field where there's quite a bit of interaction with academia. I've had 2 journal articles published, another on the way, have spoken at an academic conference, and have a book idea floating around (with publisher). so...phd or not? jack in "industry" and try for academia? I really think your personal experiences would be helpful.

i'm applying this year for next year start. it's sort of starting a second career (well, not really starting, but moving from studying it into a real attempt to move into it lol - nothing at all to do with what i've spent the last 16 years getting paid to do, just an attempt to get what i've been studying on the side to actually pay some bills . eventually. it's been rumbling for a few years - i was offered the opportunity before but had to turn it down.

i'm making no sense, am i? it's a late attempt to get into academia after a completely different career path - it's a gamble, but as a family we're in the process of making a huge gamble and setting up permanently o'seas, so the timing seems right. it's also a way of getting to know the academic system here, which seems a bit different!

Hello hatwoman - I think we've chatted on a freelancers thread?

I've just started this year, full-time. Very fortunately with AHRC funding. I'm 37, so am 15 years or so into my career. I too worked in an area where there was quite a bit of interaction with academia (or perhaps more of a grey area between 'professional' and 'academic' spheres) and had published quite a bit, done conferences etc.

Why now? Well, DDs are 3 and 5 and although I had kept my career doing since they were born, I was constantly frustrated that I never had chance to think about anything properly, and no time to read around my subject, keep up to date with new developments etc. So I felt like I was trading on out-of-date knowledge. I also saw it as the ultimate antidote to that horrible feeling that I had become a mum and that my brain had turned to mush and that I had had one too many conversations about potty training/learning to read/other kid related trivia. The equivalent of feeling like you need to get your body back into shape, if you like - I need to get my brain working again.

More immediately, I had been combining freelancing and a one-day-a-week job. But I was made redundant from the job a year ago and although I had enough freelance work to fill my time I missed the context of working in an organisation. I found freelancing a bit intellectually isolating and thought it would be great to have a group of like-minded colleagues to work alongside. That aspect of it hasn't really materialised yet, though, but that's probably my own fault for not going into the office more.

Career-wise, like you, I don't think an academic career is necessarily realistic or feasible - questions of geography as you say, but also the funding climate at the moment. I don't have a concrete plan, but my vague plan/hope is that I will be able to keep doing freelance consultancy (hopefully doing a bit along the way to keep my hand in), possibly topped up with some part-time academic work. I know someone who works in my field who does this, though she is grand and formidable and has a very serious reputation.

One downside, I think, is that I feel like some of my colleagues in the sector might see it as a bit of a retrograde step and I feel slightly awkward about a loss of status - but I think this is more my perception than other people's. Early days for me so ask me again in 3 years if it was the right thing to do!

dotty - yes I think we've chatted before. I could have written your post. except I haven't actually embarked on a phd obviously - but everything else is so similar. Like you I was finding "industry" a bit unthinking - I was faced with a choice between continuing to churn out stuff I was reasonably good at but which didn't let me read and develop or geting more firmly into management (I did a stint) - prestige yes but even less thinking. So I went freelance - loved it at first, got some pulications out of it - both academic and non-academic, broadened out my network, but I find it quite isolating and really miss an office. and well, here I am...pondering a phd.

I've applied for a fellowship with a big philanthropic grant giver - they fund any subject and will fund freelancers to do research - though in practice 99% of their grants go to academics with only very occasional grants to someone like me. I applied for 18 months to get this book idea properly off the ground. I'm in a bit of a rush right now (honest!) but if you don;t mind I'll pm you - would be really interesting to compare subject areas - it makes so much more sense once you can place someone and get an idea of the context they're working in. will get back to you soon.

madwoman - sounds good - but aren't you scared about the whole atmosphere in academia. someone on the thread about undergrad fees said that academics were all booking heir flights away from academia...not exactly inviting at the moment.

Hello hatwoman - by all means...and well done for making it to the end of my mammoth post. As you can probably tell, am still expending some mental energy thinking about whether have done the right thing!

mm, well, it's a bit now or never in my case, i think. it's where i've always been going, just the route is a little circuitous! and i'm 40 in the new year, which is always a good time to aim for something different.

but i do have to actually get the funding first, obviously... (feb app)

hi again - madwoman - have you spoken to potential supervisors? most people (at least in my line) seem to think that that's the way forward - both in terms of your application/chances of getting funding and in terms of getting support when you actually do the thing. I can't imagine anything worse than doing a phd with a disinterested supervisor.

I've got a list of unis and deadlines on my desk-top - january deadlines (which 2 of my possible unis have) are suddenly looking horribly close.

what subject and uni are you looking at, if you don't mind me asking. I'm law, sheffield, nottingham, keele but also a geographical wild card - LSE.

it's a bit tricky - my 'established' supervisor (who approached me to put together app for a multi-discip phd with a joint supervisor from another department a year or two ago) is very lovely and very keen but admits i may find someone with more specialist knowledge 'out there'.

that said, i'm a bit 'out there' myself currently, as we moved to canada with dh's work last year, so phd app had to be postponed as we weren't sure where we would be. now it looks like i'll be applying to u of c (calgary) as we are probably staying here awhile. so not only do i need a new supervisor, i also need to tweak my app so that it makes sense in an international context whereas i had already negotiated gatekeeper etc for uk based study... all my contacts are in the uk. my knowledge base is very much uk-centric.

but if we're staying here, i need to establish myself in this particular arena lol, so may as well get on with it. last year i was toying with distance phd and using original app, and basically taking 6 weeks fieldwork at a time and flying back to uk, but in the long term it's not going to do me any favours. i have some contacts here i need to put work into - it's all possible, but a bit daunting. and we're close enough to the us border to make it very multinational.

kcl is really the place to be, but there are a few lone supervisors in random outposts like notts that would be a perfect match.

as of 29 nov i change work sched from f/t to week on/ week off though, so i intend to spend the lead-up to christmas getting my act together and chatting up the intended department/ targeting a few people to chat through/ hopefully finding a good match. am a little nervous if i'm honest - i had such encouragement in the uk that it's a little daunting to be effectively starting over.

u of c is feb deadline, so next month is touting my wares time

i might still decide to find a good distance opportunity as a back-up but they seem a bit thin on the ground. even ou require you to be resident in mk, and i'm not that desperate...

I'm doing one cos I'm a biologist and won't get much career progression without it.

I've been working as a lab tech/RA for a few years but I'd like to be more involved in planning the research and writing the papers rather then just being thanked in the acknowledgements.

Plus I get to set my own hours and the stipend is higher than my salary was!

the war dept at kcl is pretty nails (my law area includes law of armed conflict). I applied for a job at kcl once - years ago when I was daft enough to think I stood a chance without a phd. Even if you're re-orienting your ideas towards a canada base it sounds like you've got the main stuff sorted - ie the actual idea iyswim. dh did a phd straight after his undergrad and he said he didn't have a clue what it was going to be on - whcih makes me think I might just stand a chance re getting funding. not sure though - I guess that things have probably got more competitive since then

I'm 36 and officially started a PhD about 3 months ago. I'm still pretty ambivalent about academia, although I currently work full-time in another university. My current job is sort of an extension of previous "industry" (not quite the right word for my area) experience with a few more academic bits thrown in. Because I'm straddling two stools, I needed to come down on one or the other, so I decided to beef up my academic credentials. The PhD is self-funded (sob) but my boss has said I can spend about half a working day a week on it, so that's something.

I'm not entirely sure where it will take me career-wise. I do have a foot in the door of the academic world, but hopefully my PhD has enough practical application that I could still return to "industry" if the right thing came up. I care a lot about the subject area, and would love to turn the PhD into a book. Maybe it will turn out to be an expensive and time-consuming hobby and nothing more, but hopefully I won't be too bitter if that's the only outcome!

Wanna know the REAL reason I started a PhD? There was some funding available to a PhD on tourism in a particularly gorgeous part of Western Australia (where I'm from). I thought "geez, that would be nice fieldwork!" so kinda jumped on in.

And yes, the fieldwork was wonderful (caravanning, camping, swimming, meeting lovely people) but now I'm in the lonely, slow, frustrating writing-up period and stuck at my desk

But I guess I've always dreamed of doing a PhD, but had thought I'd do it in mid-life. This opportunity arose when I was 26! I was a bit unprepared for it.

I am very optimistic about my career. Perhaps it may not be in academia, but I'm open-minded, flexible and hard working. Surely thats gotta count for something :)