When time out doesn't work?

[teenageriot]

I'm having a hard time right now. DS is 5 and DD 2,5 together they are very naughty, separately they are lambs.This morning I found them in the kitchen having spread oil ALL over the floor, mixed it with sugar, play dough, eaten the whole packet of chock ices, half the after eight box etc etc. I put DS in time out' in the downstairs toilet, DD on the step. I was angry for ages, doing my best to make them both understand what was going on, why I was angry, what a nice sat morning we'd all be having if they hadn't behaved badly, even resorting to the pathetic 'santa sees everything' and any gifts were in jeopardy. The youngest got it pretty quick, came to say sorry, wanted a hug, cried etc. 5 year old has been angry all day 'you're not supposed to shout at me' etc. Reprimands have included no TV today, no saturday sweeties, being told what a lovely time we would have had if they hadn't been so naughty but the 5 year old's naughtiness has persisted all day, lots of small things, not listening, plus whining and crying all day when he doesn't get what he wants. I don't want to hit my kids, but today I've been very tempted. What do people do when their kids are very naughty? When time out just doesn't seem to cut it?

I don't have children that age, but they seem to have achieved an awful lot! were they on their own for a while? Not saying you are at fault, but if they have alot of time to kill, and a lot of stuff to smear about the place...!

I would have gone for the short sharp punishments that you did - no saurday sweets, no tv, but I wouldn't have brought Santa into the equation, nor the fact that the whole saturday had been ruined - surely they are too young to grasp those concepts? Also, aren't they kind of vague threats - it's more what you would say to a teenager/adult than a small child.

where does your five year old get the idea 'you're not supposed to shout at me' from? not sure what to do re naughty step - will be interested to har what others say.

As I say, I only have one 5 month old, so am not in any posiiton to give advice, really, and am sure others will be more helpful!

What a bugger to clear up though.

Thanks for comments. It was at 8 AM in the morning, usually they wake me up and as it was a sat I didn't have the alarm. They must have been up by their usual 7am and gone down to the kitchen together and got carried away... Usually they are never on their own much. It's usually the 2,5 year old leading, and then the 5 year old thinks it's hilarious and follows knowing full well it's totally forbidden.
I've sorted a lock to kitchen door at least, so they can't get in there at all without me now.
I find it hard to boot camp. How do you boot camp? when they refuse to tidy/get ready/get clothes on/ etc etc how do you make them?

The book 'how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk is really good.

Timeout just made my ds worse but that is just our experience.

And whatthesecondingcoming said. It's not easy and takes ages.

I'd ditch the Saturday sweeties too as bad for them but I am a mean mummy.

Good luck

We are all guilty of this at one time or another - you gave your kids far too much attention for being bad. You should time them out and completely ignore them for 5 or 10 mins and then after that avoid going on and on about the incident. Ideally after time out you needed to quickly, quietly and calmly explain why it's naughty and move on. Change the topic, end of punishment. I imagine the 5 year old was feeding off your negative mood really. Mine do sometimes. For kids though, negative attention is better than no attention. Try to give quality attention for good behaviour and have fun with the boys. You want them to want to stay in your good books.

Thanks ZombiePlanB - Have just ordered from Amazon, all help needed with my 2 ds!!!