Arrggh - little bully hurt my son

[Swirl]

Just really wanting to let off steam.....DS who is 2.3yrs was playing in Soft Play area in Leisure centre this morning and another boy who looked about the same age (taller but with much less vocabulary) basically followed him round and knocked him off things/took toys off him. I can cope with that as I guess it is normal enough behaviour for young children (even though DS has never done it). DS always stands back when someone does this and patiently waits until he can get on again etc.
Anyway next thing I see is the boy running up to my DS from behind, grabbing him round the neck and doing a kind of wrestle move! My poor DS fell down, his lip was bleeding, he was crying. I ran and picked DS up and cuddled him till he settled, trying not to make a big deal of it. So, so angry though inside. The other boy was there as part of the Creche so there was no mummy to reprimand him. I should have spoken to the Creche but didnt want to make a scene in front of DS (he just picks up every word you say.) We stayed on for another while but DS was quite clingy after that and noticeably wary of other boys running about.
Thanks for reading...feel better just getting it off my chest.

Well my dd (nearly 3) bear hugs her brother (very affectionately) in just the way described (if you don't count the effect of it - ie falling to the floor with a split lip). I guess neither of us were there.

Kbear, boys can be very rough. I very much doubt that the 2ish yr old who hurt Swirls little boy actually intended to cut his lip.
I am not in any way condoning the toddler's behaviour but it definitely shouldn't be seen as bullying.

I never called it bullying and of course he didn't intend to cut his lip. Blimey, am I allowed an opinion, I do have a son of my own!

This is what I said:

I agree the term bully is not ideal and not usually the case but some kids punch, bite and kick, others don't.

Kbear- is your son an only? IME when boys from 2ish upwards are together rough and tumble play will ensue. I don't know any brothers who don't behave like that with each other once in a while and many boys "play" like this with their friends to a greater or lesser extent, I've found. Maybe that's the source of your cousin's children's seeming aggression? Do you think they could be including your son in ways that he's just not used to and is maybe a little young for?

Swirl- sorry to hear that your son was upset. Hope he's feeling better now. I do agree with those who've said this is a supervision issue and worth complaining about.

No, he's not an only child. This isn't about me and my kids BTW! And the cousins are younger than him! They are allowed to do punch, my son is not.

I would not be happy for my children to punch another child, hit another child, push over another child - say it how you want. Violent behaviour at 2, 3, 4 5 should not be accepted. Agree it's not bullying as such but it is violent behaviour.

I was defending Swirl's right to be upset that her child got hurt, that is all. Why am I suddenly the focus of this thread?

Ok, ok- sorry to cause umbridge, kb. Was just having a wee speculate on rough and tumbling. Anyway, I agree that punching is not a good thing.

Sorry to hear about your little boy Swirl.

I am afraid that I am the mother of a reformed (mostly) wrestler. He went through about a year of randomly hitting/kicking and scratching and biting and generally being horrible to other children. He has luckily grown out of it now, it was a dreadful phase. It is not easy to be the mum of the horrible little boy either.

scummymummy - thanks for your last post, appreciate it!

I do understand that bullying is a strong term to use amd I personally wouldn't call it that BUT when a child is playing nicely why is considered par for the course that they get roughed up? At any age? Two year olds need to be taught that that is not how to play or they end up being ten year olds who play the same way don't they? Maybe not, just my humble opinion.

I agree with what puddle said here:

'In your position I would have probably tried to engage the other boy in playing with my ds (which is probably what he was after but didn't have to vocabulary to express it) and try and get him sharing and taking turns. If that didn't work I would have moved my ds away from him. '

Sounds like a constructive solution to me.

This other child "basically followed him round and knocked him off things/took toys off him".

So she should have then encouraged her child to play with this child (who was unsupervised) and thereby encourage her child to behave the same way, following his example.

Don't think so.

Swirl, you wanna dive back in here anytime soon?!!

Have to agree with Kbear here It isn't acceptable at any age for toddlers or young children to hurt others but the problem isn't really the child doing it!
It does come down to supervision, My dd4 is 2 and what I would call a bit aggressive with younger children. She is too young to properly understand why its not ok but I still explain it to her over and over and I watch her like a hawk when we are around other children.
This is my responsibility as a parent and I would be really peed off if I went to a play area etc.. and my daughter was hurt badly by a child who wasn't being watched by his/her parent(s)

Probably going to be jumped on now

magnolia1 - THANK GAWD, I thought I was alone!

Supervision is the key! Some people go to the soft play area, buy a paper and leave the kids to fend for themselves.

Yep exactly, I must admit I do do it with the 6 year olds but would tell them off if they hurt another child. But it's just not right to not watch a toddler at all times [rolling eyes emotion!!]

Oh, come on! Puddle just sugested a more pro-active, reasonable way of dealing with the situation - you know: 'let's see if we can play with this together' sort of thing. Or taking the child away if it doesn't work.
It's only a 2 year old, for god's sake, not a wild animal!

Swirl i hope your little boy is feeling better now.
IO ahven't read all the replies but IMO, it wouldn't have been a bad thing too say anyway infront of your son, i think a happy mix of him knowing all children aren't soft and Mammy being there to fight his corner would be fine.

Terrible typing there, i wasn't having a go there you know, i just picked up on what you said about not saying infront of him.

Vess, Are you seriously saying that if a child kept repeatedly hurting your child until it ended in a cut lip you would encourage them to play together

What a load of cobblers!!!

There are the parents that say all behaviour is fine, the child is exploring it's character, learning cause and effect and other such stuff.

There are parents who say "No, this is not the way to behave, THIS is and if you can't play nicely you won't play at all".

Start early, you get a well behaved child able to cope in all situations. Ignore bad behaviour, the child thinks it's acceptable because mummy never tells them off she just lets them play on so they can learn what happens when you hurt another child and that child never learns that that behaviour is wrong.

The child in question was not supervised so ran riot to the detriment of another child's happiness and enjoyment.

"Start early, you get a well behaved child able to cope in all situations. Ignore bad behaviour, the child thinks it's acceptable because mummy never tells them off she just lets them play on so they can learn what happens when you hurt another child and that child never learns that that behaviour is wrong. "

Hmm not always that simple. Shout at ds1 and he thinks its hilarious and does whatever it was again immediately with ever increasing joy as you get crosser. Ignore him and he stops. We had huge problems at school when certain teachers insisted on shouting at ds1 for pinching (adults) and the behaviour got worse and worse. Change of school, where they understood what they were doing and hey presto behaviour goe.

Different methods work with different children, and sometimes only for some of the time.

Ok....I'm back! A friend called round for the afternoon so only logged back on, and feel I need to explain several things. Firstly a BIG BIG thank you KBear for speaking up for me when I wasnt here : ). And thank you all for your replies, advice and asking after DS.

Having calmed down alot from this morning, I now realise my use of the word "bully" was inappropriate for a 2 year old child. It was a totally unprovoked and deliberate launch on my DS, after several previous incidents of knocking him off things, but I accept that this is just a behavioural problem. I think I jumped to use the word "bully" more because I am truly worried that later in life DS may well be the victim of one come school age. I have experience of the long term effect school age bullying can have so that is why I am so afraid for DS.

As I put DS to bed tonight he kept asking me "where has the naughty boy gone" and rubbing his lip. I just told him that sometimes little children can be naughty, but we will just ignore them and forget about it, and just play away ourselves having fun. He repeated this a few times and seemed happier, so hoping I have said the right thing.

but Jimjams you deal with your child your own way you're not ignoring his behaviour you are dealing with by ignoring him when his behaviour is bad IYSWIM. I never said shout at the child. I said supervise and train them (yes train them) to behave correctly, as you would wish them to be treated.

Jimjams thats fair enough but it would not be ok to ignore a child hurting another just because this works better than shouting! Different with adults who will ignore it and make the desicsion to do so but a child shouldn't be expected to IMO

I think that we all need to bear in mind that not all children are good at interacting with other children. Some are naturally more clumsy, some are socially immature, and some have disabilities that cause them problems with interacting.

My two (6&5) wrestle with each other a lot, and they come home from school frequently with notes about accidents at school. I think that small children are just very physical.

I'm not saying that anyone should feel OK about their child getting hurt by another child, but in my opinion you have to accept that it is probably going to happen at some point. And at some point it will probably be your child doing the pushing. I know that some children are lovely and gentle for all their lives, but I really do think that much of that is due to their nature. I guess there are more rough children who have had rough parenting, but I know of plenty of gentle parents who have children that have had rough periods.

Hmm - guess I'm just saying we shouldn't rush to judge. Although I would agree about adequate supervision.

magnolia- no it was a problem when ds1 started going for children in his class. And we all (as in teachers + myself and dh) agreed that one of the problems was that the children would scream (quite rightly it bloody hurt)- and that was even more rewarding for ds1 as he then got to see inside their mouths. Anyway I think the strategy used incolved removing from the situation calmly - and no shouting- as it was known that would reinforce the behaviour. It worked- as the pinching lasted about 10 days (whereas pinching adults at his school lasted for about 8 months- with him singling out the biggest screamers). It worked because of the strategy- because from his POV pinching children is far more interesting as you get a good gawp inside a screaming mouth.

kbear- yes I agree that some sort of strategy should be used, but my problem is that conventional stratgies (jumoiung up and down, shouting etc) are very rewarding to ds1- but sometimes when out and about I feel that is expected. I have even found kyself saying to him "say sorry"which is just ludicrous as he can't speak.

I also think there's a tendency if you have easy children to think its because of something you have done. I certainly thought that when ds1 was the world's easiest 18 month old. And I would probably think it if ds2 was my only child as he is ridiculously polite. I quite often get complimented on his please and thank yous and yes's not yeah) which always makes me laugh as I haven't done anything with him- that's just him (ds3 is shaping up to be a horror btw).

in this case I think the main problem was with lack of supervision, rather than any particularly awful behaviour- and who knows what the parents would have done- they weren't there!