Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

8 year old with thoughts about suicide and the death of others

23 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 26/09/2010 19:55

This is not related to my own child, but the child of one of my friends and neighbours.

The boy in question is 8 years old, lives on our road, and is in my sons class in school.

I was talking to his mum last night.

Basically, the way I understand it, he has developed a strange anxiety. Last year, his father lost consciousness and fell over in their living room, and was taken to hospital in an ambulance together with the boys mum. The boy was left sleeping in his bed, and his older sister was home with him. His parents were still not home when he woke up next morning. His grandma was taken ill a little later, and needed an operation in hospital. His cat died. The neighbour, a 20 year old girl was found dead in her bead after an epileptic fit in her sleep.

Another neighbour, a 12 year boy had a few years earlier tried to make a silly joke on his family, and put a noose around his neck, and walked down the stairs, so it should look like he had hung himself from the banister. He slipped and fell, and strangulated himself, but did not at the time die, he became severly brain damaged. The kids on the street are still talking about this.

Our neighbour flew to Mallorca with his family this summer, and there was really bad turbulence in the airplane, and he got very scared of dying.

Since then he has developed a strange kind of anxiety, everytime he is alone he is scared of either himself dying, or his family dying, and he is scared he is going to do something that either causes him or somebody else death. He is also thinking about suicide. Some days he wishes his parents, or grandparents were dead, and he imagines life without them.

He has a referral to some sort of child psychiatric assessment, but the waiting list is long.

Meanwhile, my son has been walking to and from school with him. His mum does not want him to walk on his own, so she has spoken to the after school club about her son staying on to wait for my son, so they can leave together. My son is supposed to leave at 3.30. He is supposed to leave at 3 pm. Only, the school has said he can wait alone in the carpark for 30 minutes, until my son finnishes. I think it is irresponsible of the school to let him stay alone in the carpark for 3o minutes until my son leaves, under the circumstances. Bearing in mind that this is a boy that has strange thoughts about his or others peoples death when left on his own.

One issue I have with this is that I dont know what frame of mind the boy is going to be in after 30 minutes alone, and if it is fair to expect my son to deal with him on the 15 minute walk home. Across a bridge with a fast river, along a relatively busy road. Is there a chance that the boy will throw himself into the river if compulsion takes him? Or throw himself in front of a car? The boy is much taller than my son, and very strong. Is there a chance he will feel compelled to throw my son into the river? Or in front of a car?

Where we live it is normal for children to walk to and from school on their own from they are 6 years old. So please dont flame me for letting my son walk to and from school, it is besides the point. However, I am of course not happy for my son to walk with this boy, at this point in time. Yet at the same time I am not keen to wash my hands off the problem and leave him to walk on his own. Ideally, his mum should be picking him up, she is a sahm, and there is no reason why she couldnt come and walk home with him, or pick him up by car.

I am however wondering if she is using my son as company for her boy, rather than picking him up herself.

I have never heard of anything else like this, and dont really know what to think about it. I dont know if there is any risk in them walking home together, or him walking on his own. Though, his mum would not let him walk alone home from football practice (5 minutes walk away) the other week, and came to pick him up, so she must hace some concerns.

Any ideas, or any experience?

OP posts:
c0rns1lk · 26/09/2010 20:02

Maybe you could tell the mum that you are uncomfortable with your ds walking home with hers whilst he is having these thoughts. Sounds like she is using your ds, even if she doesn't realise it. Has she asked for him to have counselling? Poor kid.

QuintessentialShadows · 26/09/2010 20:07

She has asked for councelling for him, but the letter she has received just says that she will hear back from the hospital by 15th october, so she does not know when he will be able to see somebody. The gp had been keen to rule out schizophrenia, and were asking if there were other voices telling him these things, or if the thoughts originated in himself. He aid it was in himself. This has been going on since mid July now, and it is not getting any better for him.

OP posts:
c0rns1lk · 26/09/2010 20:10

poor lad Sad
You have to look out for your ds though. If you aren't happy for your ds to walk home with him then I would say so. Maybe she thinks that by walking home with your ds he will be chatting and playing and less likely to be dwelling on his negative thoughts, so I can kind of see why she wants him to.

QuintessentialShadows · 27/09/2010 09:53

I am unsure. I told my ds some general stuff this morning, such as : Whoever you walk to and from school with, remember, do not under any circumstances run out into the road, and walk across the bridge quickly. If somebody falls into the water, do not try to get intot he water yourself to help them out, as you will both be carried out to sea and nobody will know what happened to you, you need to run and fetch an adult, preferably at the doctors surgery by the river (the nearest building) if you can see no pedestrian/cyclists, etc I will make sure he has his mobile phone with him every day.

I should also speak more to his mum. Dh says, the mum will most likely give the "kindest" story, we dont know if he has any other compulsions against his friends. But so far, it seems like he is fine when he is playing with other kids, and nobody at school/after school club has mentioned anything.

OP posts:
Jux · 27/09/2010 10:37

My daughter was on the brink of self-harming and suicide late last year, as a result of 7 close family deaths, pet deaths and others.

The school were very helpful - as far as they could be anyway. The school nurse saw her once a week. A TA was detailed to see her for 10 minutes every day if dd wanted or needed to. All teachers were on the alert and ready to listen, talk, let her sit quietly somewhere etc.

CAMHS saw her when the school nurse reported that dd had said she found the kitchen knives "tantalising". They saw her that week (or maybe the next).

We found a charity which provided fantastic support for bereaved people, who also funded a children's counsellor who started seeing straight after the 6th death - up until then she'd been coping more or less.

Our local hospital runs a bereavement walk-in have a cup of tea and a chat thing once a month.

I know this boy isn't your son; I just wanted to let you know that there is tons of help out there if you do a bit of digging. Maybe the boy's mum simply isn't up to the fight herself?

QuintessentialShadows · 27/09/2010 11:04

Thanks for sharing your story Jux, and I am sorry to hear about your daughters problems.

You are right that the mum might not have the resources. She is lovely, but she has her own health worries, she is not a sahm through choice, but on disability benefit due to a special type of illness where her bones disintegrates. The father is in his late sixties, 20 years older than mum. She is also computer illiterate and has no education past "gsce" (or eqivalent here). She is streetsmart and bright though, and has a really good knack with kids.

I have googled, and found a few articles related to anxiety in children, bereavement and suicide in kids. Do you reckon she would appreciate if I brought them over for her to read? Or do you think she would find it intrusive?

OP posts:
Jux · 27/09/2010 11:29

I'm not sure. I would have done anything for anyone who helped my child at the time and was almost hysterical with grief myself. But I was also thoroughly over-sensitive - I remember telling the head mistress that I wasn't going to send dd back to school until I knew there was sufficient support for her there "which there isn't at the moment" I said (ignorantly and wrongly and hysterically). I screamed at our gp who is a lovely bloke and didn't deserve it. DH complained vociferously and aggressively about the TA at one point, for saying something she didn't actually say. I sent dd off to stay with 'normal' relatives for a week too. She came home with books about JesusGrin.

I think if you could wangle a way to talk to her about it first, and bring the subject up about stuff on the internet and would she like you to have a look for her? then she'd probably be OK with it, but she probably won't read it as it'll frighten her, make her cry, add to the weight of misery helplessness etc, in fact bring it all to the fore. I'm speculating; you know her better. Try chatting first and take it from there.

If you could find out about walk-in bereavement centres nearby, that might help more tbh.

Think carefully though about how involved you can be. You may find that she leans on you more than you can manage once you start.

anonymosity · 27/09/2010 14:25

How does your son feel about it? What kind of things does this boy talk to him about - if its a positive distraction I guess that's what he needs, if the onus is on your child to help him out, I don't think that's fair or right at all.

Can you pick them both up? Can you suggest the boy's mother do it?

sorry, just firing out some questions that I hope might lead the way to finding practical solutions to your situation. others have touched on a lot of helpful things for this child in the longer term...

QuintessentialShadows · 27/09/2010 15:27

I dont think the boy has mentioned anything to my son. I am hesitant to ask, as I am not sure how to, to be honest.
My son shares many things with me, but he does not always think to mention a lot of things at home, if he does not find it relevant somehow. (He speaks openly about the boy in his school who is going to do a gender operation, so there is a lot of awareness of transgender issues, and I dont think most kids need to even consider this!)

How can I ask my son in a way that does not make him worried?

OP posts:
anonymosity · 28/09/2010 00:22

I'm not sure to be honest. You could possibly ask casually, "so, does X talk about anything interesting on the way home? has he got any good stories?"

That's what I'd say, but you know your son better than anyone here.

pippibluestocking · 28/09/2010 00:33

How does the boy know the details of all these tragic events, mainly thinking of accidental asphyxiation of boy years before. I have to say as someone who works in mental health that I have never encountered a diagnosis of schizophrenia being considered in an 8 year old. Are you sure all you are being told is true?

Jux · 28/09/2010 08:32

You know, I would talk to the school. Did they ask you if it was OK with you for your son to walk with this child? I would expect the school to outline the scenario to me and ask if I thought it would be alright for my child to - essentially - be responsible for this boy on the walk home.

I think you're right to be worried; if this boy is in a truly bad state, then your son could find himself having to take charge of a potentially traumatic situation where he would need to be sensible and responsible.

If the school have not talked to you about this, then I suspect that the boy is not actually in too bad a state. Talk to the school, tell them your concerns about your son walking home with him. It's also worth pointing out to them that the boy hanging about in the playground for 30mins is not exactly a good solution anyway.

cory · 28/09/2010 08:54

Can I just point out that most people (including children) who have suicidal thoughts would never dream of implementing them when they are with a friend.

Far more likely that something happened to him in that playground, or that he sneaked off during the 30 minutes (assuming that this being Norway, he could easily get out).

Jux · 28/09/2010 09:48

Exactly cory.

QuintessentialShadows · 28/09/2010 14:28

cory Tue 28-Sep-10 08:54:21
Can I just point out that most people (including children) who have suicidal thoughts would never dream of implementing them when they are with a friend.

Cory this is a relief.

pippibluestocking, I think his parents have regarded him quite mature and have spoken about events that has happened in the family, and he couldnt not notice his cat died! He was very upset.

As for the accidental asphyxiation, the boy in question was friends with the boys older brother (now 19), and the neighbour, the 20 year old girl was a friend of both his brother and his sister (22), and they went to the funeral. Her deat was also in the paper.

Actually, thinking back, both his paternal grandparents died during the last year. I think the last year has brought home to him that death takes young and old alike, and pets.

The kids have also been reading about tragic stuff in the paper, young soldiers dying in Afghanistan, a man went berserk with an ax and hacked up his landlord, landlords pregnant wife and mum, a stones throw away from us, their two sons were attending the local school, the teacher who was shot by her policeman boyfriend outside her school. There has been plenty of shocking stories in the paper. I read the paper first, before my son gets to it, and will just hide it away if there is anything traumatic. Maybe this boys mum hasnt.

I is shocking that so many dramatic things happen in such a small remote place. Or maybe the papers just take more of an interest.

I will ask my son if his friend has any interesting stories to tell when they go home together.

The school is usually quite good with "stuff", so I reckon they dont see him as a danger to either himself or others.

OP posts:
Jux · 28/09/2010 19:03

You can still contact the school and ask them about the concerns you have for your own son. I really would do that, if I were you.

gifty0227 · 28/09/2010 21:41

Based upon what you've said, the boy needs counselling, there are counsellors out there that have been trained to communicate and relate with children that have suffered trauma.
You could speak to your doctor to connect you with relevant services.

I think its also a good idea to help him to communicate about his inner feelings, he can express himself through drawings...anything that will enable him to get it off his chest and put it into perspective. It will take time but its possible for him to overcome this.

He's just had alot of emotional challenges to face within a short period of time.I'm not sure if you believe in prayer, but I would also pray for him, that God will give him the ability to overcome such a traumatic situation.

There are a number of books out there that you can even purchase that tackle Post traumatic stress and helping children deal with grief.

Wishing you the very best

QuintessentialShadows · 28/09/2010 22:37

Thanks gifty, I was just thinking it might be post traumatic stress. I believe in prayer, but the family is not religious. His mum told me this is the first time in her life she wished she was a Christian, as it would have given her some really good answers to his questions about what happens after death, that is comforting to a child. Her explanation "we we die, we rot, then become nothing" has not really brought him much comfort.

I know our parish priests, they are lovely, they have kids, and one is visiting preschools once a month to sing with kids. I am wondering if, with mums permission, I should suggest bringing her son to sunday school and let the priest have a chat with him. (Dont worry, I will NOT do this without discussing with his family first) I think it may be useful for him to open up and talk to another grown up, as the priest I have in mind has excellent listening skills, and a real knack with children, he is also involved in the childrens bereavement group in Church.

Jux, I will have a word with the school. The boys mum has been given both boys a ride to school in the morning, and he has walked home with my son some days. I asked my son if he had any interesting stories to tell, and my son just looked at me like I was mad, going "nah, only the usual football stuff".

OP posts:
Jux · 29/09/2010 09:18

Good. The 'usual football stuff' is good too, in a way. He's hanging on to normality, while he's with your son at least.

He will need an outlet though, where he can talk about the usual football stuff if he wants but also where he knows he can talk about all the other stuff too.

Depending upon how strongly the mum feels about religion, and also how desperate she feels about her son's state of mind, then she might go for your suggestion. I suspect, though, that taking him to Sunday school would be a no-no - too much.

If he could meet the priest without the trappings, say, at your house, at the school, at a church bazaar or something, then I think you are more likely to meet with some success. People who aren't religious can be - often are - very suspicious of priests, assuming that they will be met with all-out evangelising, proselytising, and any other conversion techniques! (My dh, for instance.)

QuintessentialShadows · 29/09/2010 22:04

I had a very brief chat with his mum today. They come back from school together, and he asked if my son wanted to come back to his for dinner, so off they went, and shortly after they came back, and I let them have a pudding of fruit and biscuits, as we had just finnished our dinner.

They had just sit down to draw together when mum rang the doorbell asking him to come as they were going out. He seems totally normal to me.

I said to her "look, I know you are not really keen on computers, but maybe you want me to google a bit for you and find some information " And she looked relieved and said "That would be a godsend, I am at my wits end, and so is he, and I just dont know where to start!" She said she had chased the hospital again today, but so far they are not even on a waiting list for councelling.

Will have a google, and by the sounds of it, she needs a chat! Will ask her over after bedtime during the next few days.

I feel so sorry for them.

OP posts:
Jux · 30/09/2010 11:34

God, poor woman; and he's not even on a list! That's appalling. Well done, you, it looks like you've hit just hte right note iwth her. Good luck to you, I hope you manage to help them.

anonymosity · 30/09/2010 18:25

You have done the kindest thing you could possibly do in the circumstances, I think that's great.

chaya5738 · 30/09/2010 20:00

This probably isn't the case with this child but apparently this can be very common in seven-years old - anxiety about death and dark thoughts. Strangely enough, it can be a development phase. Read the book "Your Seven Year Old Child".

New posts on this thread. Refresh page