Spanish or English Nationality

[1Catherine1]

This is probably in the wrong category but after scrolling though the categories available I think It where I'm more likely to find the people in the know on this one.

I'm expecting my first child in a few months and as an English woman who is used to paying over the odds for everything I spent this afternoon doing some numbers. I've worked out that if my baby claims her (must stop doing that, I don't know the sex but am convinced I'm having a girl) fathers nationality (Spanish) she will save way over £450 in her lifetime on passports! (excluding inflation) Ok, so that isn't a really big deal but I wouldn't offer to give £450 away if I had the choice.

I also had a look at dual nationality and if I could get my baby to be declared Spanish first then she can later claim British nationality without renouncing her Spanish one. If she did it the other way she would have to renounce her British one (even though Britain would still recognise it) which I think I would find offensive.

So my question is: Can I get her declared Spanish with a Spanish passport if she born here in England?

You do have a birth certificate in spain, it is handwritten into a ledger and you can get a copy whenever you want (for the princely sum of about 1? per copy )

I have such a question; not sure anyone knows but will ask? Will I have any problems at the UK borders if I travel on a European passport/ ID card and my baby on a British passport? Does it matter at all if the baby and mother have different European passports?

MrIC Spain does issue birth certificates. They are called certificado literal de nacimiento. The Libro de familia is used for most things but it's a certificado literal de nacimiento you need to produce to get a Spanish ID card or to apply for your UK passport in Spain.

Does anyone know the answer to this:
DS and DD were born here and births registered in Spain. You don't get a passport/ID card til 5 yrs old I think so we've applied (and got for DS, waiting for DD) for UK passports. DH Spanish, me British. Will they then be able to have Spanish ID later on? I understood they could as dual nationality doesn't exist, but they have rights to both so the 2 nationalities just sort of coexist???

I've seen loads of under 5s with Spanish passports. If your children have Spanish nationality, I would have thought it's simply a case of buying a Spanish passport.

There's no problem with letting a dual citizenship child's British passport lapse if the other nationality is EU - British passports are so damn expensive that it is a waste of money to maintain both passports. I do believe that American binationals are obliged to travel to and from the States on their American passport, though.

I would just keep the British nationality and forget about the Spanish one if you can don't even register the birth in Spain because if your husband decides to leave you he can take your child to Spain with the full backing of the Spanish authorities and you could be forced to live in Spain and there is nothing the British government will do to help as your child is a Spanish national,sorry to be so negative but I wish my child had been born in the uk .

I haven't read all the thread (lazy mood tonight, sorry), but my DD3 was born in Spain nearly 3 years ago. We didn't register her birth with the British Consulate (was told there was no need), but obviously registered her birth in Spain, she has a Spanish Birth Certificate and we have the Libra Familia etc etc.

Her passport is British, which we got at ridiculous expense from the Madrid office - no choice you HAVE to. However, they (and the local Spanish offices) told us the same thing: when our DD is 16 she can apply for, and hold, both a Spanish passport and an English one. We discussed getting her a Spanish one immediately at birth but, because both me and her father are British Citizens, she can not have one until 16.

Incidentally MrIC we were told that British birth certificates were only given to British citizens born abroad if they were children of serving forces parents. Initially I had wanted her to have a British one, but actually am rather glad that she will have the option of a Spanish passport when she is older.

We're back in the UK now, and all relevant paperwork for her (NHS number etc etc) was straightforward and done in no time. The only blip I had was claiming Child Benefit where they practically wanted blood proving she is who she is and I am who I am

Calypsoblue,
unfortunately nationality rules / laws do not work as you describe. You cannot "forget" a nationality if you have it, you would have to legally renounce a nationality if you have it. So if children acquire a nationality at birth due to where they were born and / or nationality of a parent, "forgetting" that nationality is just not going to happen, not buying a national ID or passport does not mean you "forget" a nationality either. Spain and the UK are both signatories to the Hague Convention, it's the interpretation of the Hague convention which would settle any custody issues. Sometimes this sucks if parents separate and one parent wants to return to their original home country, it also works the other way, I know a parent who succeeded after a 3 year battle to take her children back to one parent's original place of residence and immediately broke the conditions of custody, leaving the other parent estranged from their children, yes I can see it from both parents' sides but feel most sad for the children.
AuntingCarse, my guess is that your child is not Spanish at birth, despite being born in Spain, I'm guessing that Spanish law, from what you have written, does not allow your child to apply for nationality until they are 16? We're in Belgium, children born to EU nationals here are only Belgian if their parents are resident here for 5? years prior to birth, otherwise the parents can apply to "naturalise" after 3 years or "register" after 7, then the children automatically become Belgian too, nationality is quite complicated! I would however check the accuracy of what you have been told about Spanish nationality for your child - you don't want to find what you have been told is incorrect in a few years time, sorry there I cannot help as I don't know Spanish nationality laws. Obtaining a Spanish passport is not obtaining Spanish nationality, a passport or national ID simply is a proof of a nationality, you can have nationality without a passport of national ID. And yes you cannot have a British birth certificate when you are born abroad, unless you are the child of Armed Forces / Diplomatic / EU Official, but the "certificate of registration" (can't remember the exact name) issued to other British nationals born abroad look almost identical to UK birth certificates, so many people believe they really are birth certificates, even the wording on them suggest they are.
Finally, AuntingCarse, yes the UK Child Benefit Agency is painful to have communication with, not only are the completely inefficient at issuing proof to other EU countries that child benefit claims in the UK have stopped, they also allow people who have long left the UK and no longer have entitlement to UK child benefit to continue to fraudulently receive this benefit, they also fail to audit the huge fraud in benefit fraud from (mainly) new EU nationals for parents who are not really in the UK at all and willingly pay out UK child benefit for families who have no connection with the UK. Yet try to move from an "old" EU country like Spain to the UK, and it's a painful process of transferring a child benfit claim!!!!!

AuntinCarse, one what you have written, if your child was resident in Spain for a year (not sure if it matters you are no longer there), then looking at this wiki link, your daughter would not be Spanish by "origin" or "option" but by "naturalisation and residence" ie Spanish nationality would be to be applied for. Looks like this would need to be done before the age of 18, personally if I want my child to have another nationality they were eligible to apply for, I'd do it sooner rather than later. I assume that Spain issues certificates of "naturalisation" which proves nationality but would not be valid for travel. If then you wanted your child to travel as a Spanish national, then the child would need a Spanish passport or national ID.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_nationality_law

@natacion you don't really seem to have much idea about the real world !! everybody knows what is right and wrong in a perfect world ,the Hague convention is good in theory and needs to be in place but the person /judge making the decision at the end of the day will not know your child , you or the real circumstances.Forget your nationality was probably not the best choice of words on my part, the original poster is considering applying for Spanish nationality principally because the passports are cheaper there is a lot more to it than and applying for Spanish nationality can be highly detrimental for her as a British mother .

there are significant advantages to dual nationality and tbh you can't just ignore a nationality of a country which automatically grants it according to jus sanguinis. It's there whether you apply for the passport or not as natation said. Registering the birth is an administrative formality for the sake of the child so they don't have to do the paperwork later in most cases!

The Hague Convention requires a judge to look dispassionately at the evidence. Residence not nationality is the key and the only disadvantage is if you're a non-national you're 'playing away'. There is always the option to appeal if the judge doesn't follow the rules.

No, Germans can keep a second nationality if it comes by birth.

DD is German because both her parents are but because she was born in the UK and we lived here long enough, have residencies and are EU-citizens, she is also British.

She will be able to keep both as we never applied for the British one, it came automatically.