rudeness and sulking - what do you do?

[mamateur]

We've just adopted a 12 yo from elsewhere within the family. He knows DP very well and has known me for 4 years. In general, things are going really well, but he can be very rude and sulky. I don't think this behaviour was ever challenged before (he's been brought up by his gran since he was a baby and she has let him to what he likes).

Yesterday we had a family party, my dad said something to him (small group so everyone listening) about a mutual interest they share and DN completely blanked him, looked the other way, didn't answer. I was really embarrassed but didn't say anything at the time which of course I should have done. It happened last week with some of my friends and I said "DN, X is talking to you" which caused a massive strop and I didn't want to deal with that yesterday (was our DS first birthday).

But I am prepared to deal with it in an ongoing way. DP was fuming too. He does get very shy in public and I know this plays a role, but how much I don't know. He seemed to be able to answer other people without a problem.

I'm very new at parenting a 12 year old and would love some pointers on dealing with this sort of thing.

Talk to him about it, at a calm and removed time. Explain that you need to understand what it's about and could he try and explain. If he shrugs and says dunno, ask him to think and look within and see if he can see any triggers or reasons because you want to help him get past it. Stay calm and friendly and on his side. No one want to be like that, or suffer the consequences.

Thanks Hully. I'm glad you said it's best to talk at another time rather than jump on him. I wasn't at all happy with the way I dealt with it previously because I think I just embarrassed him.

But when I talk to him, he will just shout something then remove himself immediately to his room. What do I do then?

Leave some time (breathe deeply) and then approach him again. Be on his side, smile, say that you know talking about stuff can be a nightmare but sometimes it just has to be done.

Or, if he's really not at the talking stage, talk about other stuff until he is reasonably comfortable with discussing things (could take some time), and then bring it up in the fulness. The most important thing is to be on his side. Plus, he must have a lot to cope with, don't sweat it, it's not the crime of the century. Slowly slowly.

Thanks Hully. I think the day when he will talk to him is a long way off but agree we must work towards it. He is jolly and happy a lot of the time. When I talk to his gran about what he's like she always says things like, he's always trying to make me feel guilty, he's very manipulative emotionally, he emotionally blackmails me but I think it all comes down to the fact that she never had the guts to make him do anything. She saw him as 'special' because he was an orphan.

I think he has learned to get his own way by sulking. He always just goes to his room. When he visited us before we had him permanently, he would stick his head in the sofa and refuse to face us in any way. I talked to the school and they described the same shut-down and said they had never got through to him.

So my task is to open a channel of communication. I have done it at times, I try to slip a more serious note into other conversations we have. Serious topic, I mean, not tone. We have a good jokey rapport.

Your help is appreciated!

It sounds to me (beware expert insight based on two paragraphs!!) that he has not learnt to talk whilst growing up. If he didn't grow up communicating and discussing with his gran (which that generation don't tend to be terribly good at), then he will react by closing down and disappearing because he has never been properly listened to. He will also lack insight into himself and his behaviours because he hasn't learnt introspection.

I would focus, as you say, on getting him to talk and relax. It could be a long job, but it will be worth it in the end. Have you thought about a counsellr for him to talk to?

Hully his upbringing is hard to explain. She brought DP, his brother and sister up and they are all dysfunctional in some way. His sister (DN's mother) is gone, his brother doesn't engage with life at all (drugs). DN's older sister still lives with her and is a mess despite being an incredibly bright child. When I was there last MIL was calling in to the cafe where she works (having given up her education) to tell them she was ill (she wasn't).

DP is just full of frustration with his mother and her failure to provide any boundaries. He would say he brought himself up.

I think she talks to him a lot, and recently she told me since he's come from her to us, he calls her a lot and talks about how he's feeling. I'm not sure if she means talking about his feelings or just moaning about us 'making him do stuff"!

In lots of ways I would like her to disappear for a while, so he has to turn to us, we've already had to set boundaries as she keeps saying, you can come 'home' whenever you want, plus giving him money and big presents. All about her guilt and just asking to have him play us off against her.

If he's using sulking as a way of avoiding doing stuff I don't really think that's okay. I have a good book called "The Manipulative Child" that might help you. It has some strategies that work for getting kids to do stuff (Wash themselves, do chores etc) as well as how to get them not to do stuff (pick nose, fight etc).

Don't know if it will be that helpful with 12yo and all the hormones and stuff, but I felt it was too grownup for my 2 and 4 year old.

Hully, in response to your suggestion of a counsellor - we are working on it. He refuses the idea, but he refuses all ideas saying it's 'not his sort of thing'. I have considered making him go, even if he's just silent for an hour. I'm sure the council will pay.

Magic Lady, will check out that book. Showers and teeth are another big problem.

"Sulking" first and foremost results from an inability to communicate, whether in adults or children.

Granny does sound just a tad unhelpful, and I would agree it's more likely to be moaning than proper talking, but it's difficult to see what you can do about her. I think it's important to concentrate on your relationship with him as you are doing and to listen to him, however inarticulate he is. Some of his communication is obviously non-verbal, eg sulking, but it is still (albeit infuriating) communication. You could call it "sadness" rather than sulking, eg, tell him you hate to see him sad, what is it that makes him sad like that? Ask him he knows?

It will be hard tho....

Hully it's hard because when I talk to him about anything he gets angry and speaks to me as if I'm a total moron who doesn't know anything. Then flounces. This look of utter annoyance comes over his face, like he can't believe I'm bothering him. I've seen him do this to granny and she doesn't react in any way. But obviously it's not a way forward for us in the long term.

I should add we've had lots of really good times together too, have been cooking lots and making cakes etc. which he loves.

That reaction is an "I can't cope" one (as I am sure you realise). I appreciate how hard it is, I would really pursue the neutral counseller route, he must have a lot of frustration and anger within himself, h emight find it easier to access with someone else, at least at first, and if they are any good (no guarantees) they might be able to help him with strategies.

Are there groups in your area - like a youth club - that are run by or have counsellers attend? That could be an option.

Hully so do you think I should make him go, on a 'you don't have to say anything' basis and see if the counsellor can get him to open up?

Drink, he won't consider going. We're working on this one. It's not helped by the fact that granny has always reinforced his 'it's not my kind of thing' attitude.

I'm not sure about the frustration and anger though. It could be that but I'm not sure. He lost both his parents when he was under 1 so has never known anything other than granny. He left her to come to us willingly because of a bullying incident at school. He refused to face up to it (the school dealt with it very well and the boys, who were supposedly his mates, approached him to say it had gone too far and they wanted to be friends). He put his head in the sand, refused point blank to go back to school (had the last 6 weeks off school). His solution was to come to live with us, so as not to have to face them. We live in central london and his new school (tomorrow) will be rougher than anything he could imagine (although offsted outstanding so we'll see how they manage the situation) so it won't be long before he has to start dealing with things.

Sorry, this is a huge situation. I don't really know where to start . DP is much more authoritative than me. DN does what he says but I'm not sure it's really getting to the root of the problem.

Am reading books. The how to talk so kids listen one and have order manipulate child at magic lady's suggestion.

I think I would be tempted by the counsellor route, especially as there willl be the new school to cope with as well. Bearing in mind what happened at the last one, he must be very anxious - that will contribute to behaviour problems.

You have my sympathies...

Thanks Hully. It's very hard to work out what's going on in his head. The other day I asked him whether he was nervous about going to a new school. He said no, why would he be? This was London, and there would be lots of new boys in Y8, it was no problem.

The only things we've talked through have been things like uniform, going in for the first time, etc. when he has got my reassurance that we will do all we can to make sure he fits in and is not embarrassed or made to feel different in any way. We've bought him all the right back to school stuff. He's not at all geeky, quite cool and assured.

So today I'll go to see the social worker I contacted when we were getting his school place and ask about counselling.

DS (1) is a big help - DN loves him so so much he can't stay in a mood when he's around .

Just a quick question - it's his interview with the head of year today, he starts tomorrow. He hasn't had a shower for ages - I want to make him but don't want a big scene. Should I insist?

Tell him that he doesn't want to risk being a bit whiffy - it's not cool, but that it's up to him. Then hope!

Thanks Hully, have just ordered him into the shower and have told him to wear his new uniform too. On the toothbrushing issue, am considering cutting off all coke and chocolate supplies (he gets a small part of the shopping budget for treats) until he smartens up in the dental dept. Does that sound a good idea?