I'm losing the plot. Help me .....

[LosingMyMind]

I have three under four and have never been over-endowed in the patience department. BUT I need to find a way of coping. I have three boys- the oldest are 2 and 3.4. They fight all the time, the 3 year old whinges all day, the two year old screams, pulls his brothers hair and starts all the fights. The three year old winds the two year old up all day. I have had the day from hell. I am sitting here with my second glass of wine, crying. I have lost it with them so many times today. I do not like my three year old at all. He goads me and never does anything I ask (always the opposite). I have never hit them but am considering it. My two year old laughs when I put him on the naughty step. I am breastfeeding an 8 week old who feeds all the time and so the baby's up and down as I try and discipline my other two boys. I am exhausted and have no family help. I feel like running away. I don't think I have smiled once today. How can I learn to cope? How can I stop losing it- which makes things so much worse. I know I am not good for the kids when I am like this. I am on hair trigger. They shout because I shout. Getting out of the house and garden is difficult at the momet- I find it hard keeping track of the two oldest when pushing a baby. We tend to stay in. Help

shit that sounds so tough

3 year old can be like that unfortunately

can you get the elder one into a nursery or playgroup ?

can you get any help ? a childminder / friend just to give you a rest

do you have a garden, can you throw them outside

how about if you arranged some activities .. like making playdough and bread would it divert them?

hang in there

naughty steps do work eventually but i know how hard it is if they are winding you up while they are there. shut him in his room, then he cant see you to laugh.

staying in probably doesnt help. mine are 6, 5 and 1 and i have to get out of the house by 9am or i am in the same nightmare scenario you have just described. dress and feed yourself, dress them, feed them, do the baby while they are eating and just go. if you walk them far enough they will be shattered when they get back and have much less energy for fighting each other. get reins or wrist straps if necessary

you are in a incredibly difficult situation, but it will get much easier as the baby grows up a bit. you have my sympathies x

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Like the other posters I really feel for you, I did at one time have 4 age 10, twins are 6 and a 2 year old which is hard but easier as they are getting older but I know that when Katie was a newborn and the twins were 4, I was breasfeeding and it was so hard to look after 2 fighting 4 yr olds and relax enough to bond with and feed the baby. Are you on your own or is there a partner living with you?

If possible and there is a partner can he possible do more to help?

Also try talking to your hv to see if there is surestart in your area? When my twins were babies I had a woman come round once a week (twice if I wanted) for 2 hours and it was such a great help.

Some playschools take children from age 2, which even if it was once or twice a week it would give you a much needed break.

Hang in there :-) xxxx

I do have 4 at that age not 'did at one time'

Poor you. Are they bored? I don't think they're old enough to be deliberately winding you up, they're just bored/hungry/tired/want attention. The latter most likely, especially as you have a new baby and they'll both be feeling jealous. Don't start hitting them, honestly, it won't get you anywhere and will only make you and them feel worse. Where's your partner in all this? Is he there? Have you got a double buggy so you can get out with 2 of them in a buggy and the other one a wrist strap if he won't reliably stay with you? You do need to get out I think, hard though it must seem, somehow children are easier in the open air, I think it's Christopher Green in Toddler Taming who says 'head for the wide open spaces' and he's right ime although I know it can seem like more effort than it's worth sometimes.

Are the older 2 getting enough sleep? Are you? Does your partner give you a break so you get some sleep? Lack of sleep clouds EVERYTHING and makes one feel like crap I think! So if you're not getting enough sleep you would be on a hair trigger. Could you stick the older ones in the garden with messy paints and let them paint/make a mess with water or something to keep them occupied for a bit tomorrow? threee yos rarely do what you ask first time, try only making a big deal of the things that are truly worth it, like safety things, don't battle over the small things, sod them. And you could try making some things into a race 'see if you can get a nappy for me by the time I count to 20...WOW you did it!' that kind of thing. Sorry, these are just random thoughts but I hope there's something useful in there.

And (I say this as someone who realised it was at the root of some problems with my boy when he was 3)you could see what happens if you give them some attention, i.e. sitting down and talking to them both and giving them completely undivided attention from you, maybe if the baby's asleep. I realised I wasn't doing enough of this at one point and that my son was ramping up the drama to get my attention. And you definitely deserve the wine. Motherinferior isn't here but I feel she might say 'keep drinking'

dh is fab with the kids (more patience, but obviously less time spent with them) But he works in Paris three days a week so can always help. When working in London he gets home late.

What stops me heading for wide open spaces is that there aren't many where we live in london. Busy streets and a three year old that never does as he is told (and throws himself to the floor if a wristband put on) means I am a bit nervous about taking them all out.

Every task I set them up with (painting and playing with water today in the garden) ends up in fighting.

My three year old is as good as gold if I give my undivided, full-on attention. I have other kids and a house to run and the crux of the matter is, when he behaves so badly, I do not WANT to give him any of my attetion. A vicious circle, because today he has had virtually none of my unndivided attention (other than negative, shouting attention, that is) and look where it has got me??? More wine, please...

.. dh CAN'T always help, I meant

is there any family that can help even if they are far away could they come down on the train and take them to stay with them for a week? i have 3 boys 5, 2 and breastfeeding my 4 month old. boys are so physical, the older 2 are like horses that neeed galloping each morning and then they calm down. since having ds3 i have find it very hard - you have to be in 3 different places at once and be parenting in 3 different ways - juggling just isn't my bag
try and remember that these boys desperately love you and they just can't comprehend the exhaustion you are going through right now.all i can say is what is working or helping for me at the moment and hope it helps?
1.prepare what your plans are the night before, maybe put their breakfast out ready, teabags in the cups, nappies, snacks in a bag for day out - it all helps. my more sucessful days are as gigglinggoblin describes- you have to put you and ds3 first, i've written a timetable this week for the first time and put it up in the kitchen for me and dh so we both know where we are and what is needed to be done for the day to run smoothly - this starts next week (see knackered mummies thread!)dressed and breakfast and then looking after the other 2 is more managable. maybe give them some digging, a hose pipe, woods/fields to race around nearby. if you have a garden big enough i would get a trampoline and net - this has really helped them let off steam. found am going out/activity then pm for ds2 nap while i catch up, make tea and then by 6.30 bath and bed.
2. i found changing my response to telling the boys what they can do rather than telling them what they can't do helps lessen conflict so you take the words 'no', 'don't' out of the vocabulary. if they are doing something you don't want them to do try saying no thank you. my ds2 was drawing on the walls last week so i said no thankyou, you can draw on paper and gave him some paper.
3.at this age try giving them statements rather than questions so in an upbeat voice 'time to put your shoes on' if i ask them to do something it gives them the opportunity to say no and can cause tantrums and leads to threats and more hassle.
4.respond positively to a crisis. try using distraction/humour to stop fights before they happen - my ds1 was playing with a skateboard yesterday and ds2 wanted it aswell both started shouting and pulling. i turned it into a game and told ds1 its a train and he's the driver and ds2 can be a passenger - gave ds2 a piece of paper to pretend it was a ticket and crisis was averted as ds2 hopped on board. this does require a lot of engaging with them but gradually they begin to improvise themselves (most of the time!)
5.they shout because i shout - you've answered your own question. children hold up a mirror to our own behaviour. if you find good coping mechanisms then you will be teaching them how to manage their emotions when they are faced with a problem. i try and not take things so personally though there have been times i've phoned dh crying saying ds1 did this and ds2 did that! its hard not to get caught up in their tantrums. there is a link somewhere which i've found really useful. will try and find it and post in a minute
hang in there xx

stopping a tantrum in seconds

now i'm going to have a bloody tantrum! stopping a tantrum in seconds even though this is a naff american website

I so feel for you. I had 3 under 3 and a husband working abroad so I know how hard it is. Honestly, getting out of the house was my only salvation. Your oldest will really appreciate some time in a playgroup by himself and so will you. PLEASE give yourself a break. On a positive note, in a few years your summer holidays will be so much easier because they all play together unless of course you do like me and go and get pregnant again with no 4...

Yep me too, I had the 3 and then had to have 'just 1 more'

Think I'm mad now coz I would love number 5

So far as the kids winding each otehr up and screaming, I did see on one of the parenting programmes that rather than taking sides put them both in timeout so they realise that nop good come sof their behaviour. Worth a thought maybe?

Feel for you LMM - things will settle down in time. Have you tried story time when b/feeding? or having a batch of cbeebies programs recorded for feeding time? As for going out - i have just discovered the benefits of indoor playgrounds - see if there are any in your area - there are loads in london where i am. You can sit and have a cuppa whilst you watch your other 2 run around like lunatics in the luxury of a padded cell - sort of! Worth a try once

I haven't read all of your thread but would asking your health visitor about homestart be an idea? Homestart send out a volunteer to sit with you and the kids so you can do something for yourself, wether it be a bath, feeding in peace or a quick trip to the shops on your own or just have a coffee with her and have a good chat. I have a friend in a similar situation and she say's that her volunteer is a godsend as she gets to recharge her batteries.

Where are you in london LMM? Do you have other mother friends in your area who could take your two boys, or even one, just to give you an afternoon off to stick yourself back together? Is there a gym with a creche you could go to just to get some time back for yourself? I would reiterate that it's def. worth heading for the open spaces - just seeing other people with kids always makes you feel more normal/less on the edge, plus it's calming for them and you to be outside. good luck

Oh, honey, you have all my sympathy. Babies that age IME make everything terrible; and honestly, you should have seen me with my four year old and two year old the other day, I'd seriously reached the conclusion that I just didn't like them/wasn't up to motherhood/wanted to walk out of the door and never come back.

My one additional, solid recommendation is backup, paid if not family, and yes I know that costs for under-threes. New babies are a full-time job on their own. So are small children. So two into one isn't fitting...you poor thing.

Thank you all for your messages - having a better day today (so far)

Managed a walk after breakfast with the double buggy- what was stopping me going out was worry about my three year old running about like a loon near/on these busy roads and me trying to run after him with ds2 and d3 in the buggy. He held the buggy the WHOLE TIME and got a colouring book treat. We then had a picnic in the garden. All three boys are now asleep and have been so since 1pm!!!

I still feel like the crapest mum in the world though, and I am exhausted.....