Having real problems potty training ds aged 4

[riviera]

Hi,I am having a really difficult time trying to potty train my ds who was 4 last week.

I know he should have been trained by now at least during the day but everytime i mention the subject he just goes no no no repeatidly.
I have got him a seat that fits onto the loo with side hanldes to make him feel safe but he has a real fear and i can't get him anywhere near it.

Have told him they will run out of his size nappies soon and bought him some pants which he unwrapped and threw in the hallway and shut the door.

His sisiter who is 2.3 has used the potty occasionally but is shying away from this now as well.She sits on it but does'nt do anything in it and wants me to put her nappy back on then she goes.

Ds starts reception soon and although have informed the school of him still wearing nappies feel i have failed him.
He legally did'nt have to start school until next sept but as his speech is delayed and he is getting speech therapy ,they think he may have dyspraxia the school thought it would be better he start school this sept.

Just wondered if anyone else still has a child in nappies at this age?

My ds was 3.10 when I trained him in the day. He too was scared of the whole thing. He was seeing a psychologist for other reasons but she said " just take the nappies away and put him in a pair of pants". We did - I had to force them on. Within 2 days he was great at wees. He still poos in a nappy but this is manageable as he does it in the evening. I thought that maybe I should have done it when he was not so aware of changes happening.
Have you tried to force the issue?

My ds was 3.10 when I trained him in the day. He too was scared of the whole thing. He was seeing a psychologist for other reasons but she said " just take the nappies away and put him in a pair of pants". We did - I had to force them on. Within 2 days he was great at wees. He still poos in a nappy but this is manageable as he does it in the evening. I thought that maybe I should have done it when he was not so aware of changes happening.
Have you tried to force the issue?

My Ds was'nt trained until he was 3.6yrs, he is now a year older and still has alot of accidents, I wont lie it as been a living hell.

He aslo has speech therapy, said to be 6 months behind on understanding of language and is being assessed for autism.

Astar chart worked best for my ds, put it on the bathroom door and when he gets 10 stars reward him.

Also forgot to say that we bought him a great big power ranger toy as a bribe - and it did help!

Hi Ladylucan,thanks for your reply.
I have not if i'm honest forced the issue too much as he gets really upset.But i think i will have to at some point.The hiding of the nappies is a good idea but i still use them for dd and he would probably think he could wear one of hers if i told him his had ran out.

Someone said just let him run around with nothing on but he has never liked running around naked even when he was younger.

I will just have to bite the bullet and force him into the pants.I will try tommorrow.

Thanks some great advice.

Of course bribery is a good idea alongside the star chart.He loves stickers and making things so that couldn be worth a try.

Waterfalls you say your ds is in speech therapy.
My ds is seeing a speciallist next week for a second opinion.I was wondering in my ds's case if his lack of speech and how frustrated he gets was linked to his fear of the toilet,as he can not communicate when he needs to go so i suspose for him it's just easier to go in his nappy.
Just a thought,probably totally wrong.

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Another thing that I have seen work quite well is to get a doll and explain to child that because he is a big boy and knows about toilets and wees and poohs needing to go into toilets that he is perfect to teach the doll to use the toilet. Tell him the doll is almost old enough to go to reception and even though the doll is really scared and unsure about using the toilet the doll doesnt want to be the only one in nappies. Get him to tell you all the things the doll will need to do (may need to prompt) eg learn when the wees need to come out, pull down pants, sit on toilet (or stand if you are teaching him this) flush and wash hands. Give him heaps of praise for all attempts or interest he takes in the subject and ignore him if he says he doesnt want to or runs off. Make a point of taking the doll with your dd to the toilet and make a huge fuss, oh clever doll wow look what a big boy you are, Im so proud of you let me give you a big hug, if dd happens to do anything like sit on toilet while you are doing this make a big fuss over her too. Give no attention to anything he says or does re the toilet unless it is either a positive step eg even just watching while doll or dd goes or unless he says he is really scared, in which case use the doll to try and establish what is frightening him.

oh and re pants, if you are willing to cope with messes, take dd and get her to chose some really neat pants making a huge fuss over her, let her play with them, put them on if she wants even if it is over her nappy, dress doll in them etc, let her have a really fun and enjoyable time with them, if he takes an interest remind him that he has some too but keep it low key and go with when he is ready, praise all small steps even if he starts wearing them on his head, let him make some fun associations with them.

Thanks yawningmonster,great idea.
He likes to roleplay with dolls so we could make a story out it.

sorry one more idea just reread that you think his communication disorder might play a part, try taking a photo of the toilet, the kitchen table, the bedroom etc all the routine things through the day. Use these to reinforce your verbal communication, eg ok it's bedtime show him picture of bedroom etc. Allow him to use the photos to show you as well, "Where do you want to go?" show him photos of bedroom and toilet. Even if it is just eye contact to show you which one he wants it may help him by giving him another tool with which to communicate with you.

Fab yawningmonster-ds loves taking photos so he could stick all the photos on a chart and point to the toilet when he needs to go.

Good luck I have seen these strategies work really well so hope this is the case with you.

riviera - my son is 3.7 yrs old and also has communication problems and is being assessed by a Developmental Paediatrican as she feels he may have dyspraxia.

We trained DS a few months ago now and although he still has accidents they are getting rarer. It was incredibly hard and I put that down to him having poor co-ordination (not being very good at pulling pants/trousers up and down) and poor communication (not being able to tell us when he needed to go).

I like yawningmonsters suggestion of using a visual prompt. I wish I had thought of that at the time. Ds will often bring us his cup when he wants a drink instead of asking me to get him one, so I think this could have worked for us.

In the end we had to force the issue with DS. It was a nightmare at first and it took months but he did learn to tell us that he needed to go. I think I was making things harder for him in the early stages as I would let him run around the house naked but would put him in a nappy when we went out. I think this just confused him as we only seemed to make progress once I stopped using nappys completely during the day.

Good luck with trying tomorrow. If you get stuck for ideas ask the specialist for some advice next week. Your DS's SALT may also have some tips about using visual prompts.

Thanks Lilypond.I am determined to give it my best shot.I think sometimes with my ds it is laziness as i now he knows when he wants to go as he crotches down.
Hopefully dd will come along quicker and ds will be put out his sister is doing something he is'nt.
He is very competitive.

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good luck. lots of sympathy, no real advice im afraid, other than simply forcing the issue.
also, if he is competitive, then maybe going to school, he will realise that others dont, so it might help him into pants? iyswim

This may sound crazy, but how about trying to train dd, and make a big fuss of it and hopefully reduce the anxiety that ds feels, before her fear can grow.
Perhaps, use pictures of the toilet to reinforce the speech, depending how much speech he has.
Unfortunately, he won't get over the fear until he's conquered it if that makes sense. We did the instant reward thing, of squirty soap and air freshner to press. DD also has a seat with handles but it does wobble a little, perhaps if you can secure it any way. Hope some of this gives you some ideas. Good luck