Any advice on stopping 33 month old hitting 10 month old brother?

[Lorien]

Wise mumsnetters,
Do you have any advice on how I get ds1 (33 months) to stop hitting/kicking ds2 (10 months)? Ds1 behaved very well with ds2 until ds2 got mobile and started to want the same toys etc. Now DS1 frequently hits/kicks/pushes DS2. I do time out and talk to DS1 about why he shouldn't hit DS2 but it doesn't seem to be breaking the habit. Infact, DS1 now goes to do "time out" of his own accord when he hits DS2 and comes back 30 seconds later and says sorry. But then he does it again, often saying as he is hitting "no hitting" or "Owen (DS1's friend) doesn't hit his baby." Is there anything else I can do apart froom persevering with time outs?

If your ds1 is anything like ours, and some of his friends, it is just a display of uncontrolled frustration rather than pure aggression - he obviously already knows it is unacceptable but has yet to find an alternative approach. Can you deal with the source of conflict ? Perhaps you can reason with ds1 and agree to designate certain selected toys as "special" so that when he is playing with them you will keep ds2 away. Or can they be played with out of ds2's reach ie on dining table. It may not work straight way but it gives you something to refer to when conflict arises. Eventually ds2 should learn the boundaries and both should become more cooperative.

ds (5) now allows dd (nearly 2) to "play" trains by making her her own circuit and nominating a train for her to use. It doesn't stop her interfering but we can always refer her back to her own game if she disturbs his. The younger ones just love to copy.

You do need to deal with this otherwise, as friends have found to their cost, the younger one will do the same in turn to smaller friends. Hopefully they will each become more tolerant over time.

hth

Could you do anything to protect ds1's toys and look at the triggers for the hitting. I don't believe children should share everything - we adults don't. Of course there have to be shared toys, but maybe make a big fuss about which toys your ds1 can't bear to share and take them away from the baby if he gets them, and have some toys that ds1 agrees that the baby can play with. Toddlers have very little impulse control - they sometimes literally cannot help acting on their impulses. I'm not saying it's OK to hit, of course it isn't and you should persevere with the no hitting rule, but I think distraction and helping ds1 protect his things might also help prevent some of the 'attacks' from happening. Maybe your ds1 perceives you as always being on your ds2's side and resents it? Just a thought. I have a stepdaughter of 11 and a 2year old and they are very good together as you might expect, but there is still some jealousy from the older to the younger. Other mumsnetters have recommended the book Sibling Rivalry/Sibling Love by Jan Parker as a source of good ideas.

Lizs, I didn't see your post before I posted. Seems we agree!

I agree with having "special toys" which don't have to be shared. DS2 wants everything ds1 has- usually ds1 just gives it to him (which is kind of annoying as ds2 is growing up thinking he can get everything- he'll have a shock at nursery), but there are a few things which he won't share and I don't try making him. If a big scrap starts over something I take the toy away from both of them.

I have a 23 month gap, older boy younger girl.

Usually we could compromise that the baby got one toy, and DS got the rest. So DD got one train, and DS got 6. DD got the farmer, and DS got the tractor, trailor, sheepdog and sheep. Both children happy. DS was old enough to vaguely understanding "sharing" and that he had more. More importantly, I asked him to choose which ONE toy to give his sister, I didn't choose for him. I insisted that he share, but he had some control in the situation. I praised him to high heaven for sharing.

Sometimes he hit his little sister, in which case SHE got whatever toy(s) they were fighting over. If he violently stropped about that (by throwing toys, kicking, pushing, etc.) We shut him in the bathroom or strapped him into a pushchair for a few minutes, until he could be "nice" again. He didn't get the disputed toy back until his sister was willing to give them up. I tried to teach him that he complains to me if his sister is acting up. Whatever happened, DS never got what he wanted by pushing or hitting; we tried to work it out that he got exact opposite of what he wanted if he was aggresive. We taught him that shouting at his sister or for us to help was ok.

These strategies seem to have worked out quite well, for us. Now the "baby" is nearly 2 and she's amazingly good about sharing!

Ps: We didn't do the "special toys" thing hardly at all. Just not practical for us.

Loads of sympathy Lorien - my two are 22 mnths age gap, and I shudder to remember that period when the baby starts to get mobile.

We didn't do "special toys", though some friends did with success. Other people encouraged the older child to play at the table, in their room, or even in a playpen so as to have space not to be molested by the baby brother.

I think it's vital to have a zero tolerance of aggression at this stage, though it is very hard as he is so young. Do keep on with time-outs. But can you do some positive encouragement as well? Start by aiming really, really low: "If you are nice and kind to your brother for the next 5 minutes, then: you can watch your favourite video/I'll take you to the park/you can have a sticker, or whatever". Children this young often do respond well to a very simple sticker chart. Once he gets the hang of it, extend the target time. Above all, try and catch him being good, and praise him and reward him immensely.

I don't think I was particularly good at this at this stage, because I just feel so much sympathy for the elder child who has their privacy invaded by this little beast, who can't communicate with language, but shoves, pushes, and snatches ... and it's the elder one who's in trouble when they shove back!

IME this stage lasted about a year - sorry! But once the baby started talking it got a lot better.

Anyway, to end on a happy note - my two are now 4 and 6, and love being with one another now, and play together really nicely. IMO you're in the worst stage at the moment, for this age-gap. You've just got to get through it! Good luck!

the main fights in my flat are over DD1 pens and paints. DD2 (10months) is always trying to get hold of DD1(3 1/3 years) pens, pencils, paper etc. DD1 now draws whilst sitting on the big sofa, on the top bunk or at the dining room table. she even tells DD2 'not you babes' when she tries to grab the pens. with most of the other toys they are fine sharing. dd2 tends to chew the building blocks and watch whilst dd1 builds a tower, they share dollies, play chase etc. DD1 does get frustrated at times and pushes dd2 over, but as dd2 is roughly the size of dd1 now she tends to get her own back quickly. they are both learning to share and get on at the same time, and its sweet to watch the cuddles and the way dd1 talks to dd2.

Thanks for all the advice and support! I'll try the sticker chart first I think, and make sure I go for "zero tolerance" on the hitting front (I tend to give him a warning the first time). ALthough I think the sharing part is a big part of the problem, DS1 will also hit DS2 if he's bored, just to get a reaction -- like when we are in the car and the journey is dragging on. ayyyyaghhhh

I think you should also indicate to Ds1 that ds2's snatching is also unacceptable, otherwise it might seem unfair to DS1. If you only ever tell one of them off it might breed a little resentment, possibly.

We're not yet in this situation (give it a few more months), but ds has had a short phase of hitting dd. We talked simply to him: "We don't hit people" and helped him to think of things he could hit if he wanted to: balloons, cushions, balls, etc. I even hung up a balloon at a good height for him to hit with his hands.

Perhaps 'frustration activity' might help? Something that your ds1 can do to let out his anger - scribbling, ripping up paper that is ketp in a special 'ripping box', hitting something allowable, going into a special 'stamping corner' for a good stamp, etc etc. Not as a punishment, just generally available.