how can I 'make' him do stuff?

[curableromantic]

Tomorrow DN is arriving to live with us permanently. I've posted lots about this situation (DN orphaned when DP's sister and husband died brought up by granny). After a bullying incident he refused to go back to school and granny didn't make him with the result that he hasn't left the house for the past 6 weeks, sleeping all day and on the computer all night.

I'm in absolute despair that DP's mum has allowed things to get this bad.

So, tomorrow he comes to live with us, which is something he wants to do.

I've found lots of stuff for him to do over the summer - we live in central London and there are tons of free courses for everything from rowing to cookery and art, computer stuff, sport etc.

My idea was to offer him choices, etc. but say he can take any course and must go the first day. If he doesn't like it he can stop and do a different course but must have one running at any time.

I mentioned this to DP's mum and she's immediately said well he definitely won't do any of that, he's extremely resistant to anything organised, he won't want to leave the house etc. etc.

I feel pretty deflated. When DN doesn't want to do something he shuts down and refuses to look at you.

How do I make him? He hasn't left the house for months (apart from one weekend to visit us and he was fine).

I was thinking of making him 'earn' things like his computer which granny has bought him but hasn't been set up yet, then internet connection, then the planned camping holiday.

I'm also thinking of not letting him stay at home and dragging him round with me and DS everywhere until other options appeal more.

But I don't want him to have a grim start with us. It's taking us ages to actually 'get' him because granny can't wake him up during the day to physically get him here. FGS woman stop letting his stay up all night, he's 12 .

Any advice?

I remember being twelve. My parents split up and I dealt with it by hiding in bed. I have no experience of parenting children that age but I suspect he might respond well to some boundaries and fun suggestions of things to do. No real advice but don't let MIL's comments get you down, you are doing an amazing thing for him and your ideas sound great. Good luck!

Rubyruby, his parents died when he was 1 year old - he never knew them. He's worked out a mechanism that means he never has to do anything he doesn't want to do. We need to break that mechanism and bring him back into the world.

Thanks for your good luck wishes!

X posted with ruby - see, you are amazing! And I agree, professional advice may be helpful - try Cruse

OK scratch that, X posted with you, OP!

He sounds like a deeply troubled and trapped boy. I think he need professional help to get him through. Being a teenager is hard enough on its own without the things he is going through.

Take things slowly. Set small and achievable targets. Try to find things you can enjoy doing together so you can make a strong connection. Try to find him someone to talk to of his own age. And keep reinforcing positive behaviour.

God it sounds so easy doesn't it? Not. Good luck, it will be hard work but he needs you.

Ruby, I think (if I'm remembering the right person) that DN was bereaved some considerable time ago, and it's only now getting to the point that his grandmother can't cope.

OP, if he hasn't left the house much recently, I suspect you may need to start in more gently. I'm not sure if you meant that he must always have something booked to do? My (teenage) son also will barely agree to do anything over the holidays, let alone something new every week. After a while, he does emerge and become more amenable to suggestions. But perhaps you only meant that he MUST try something, and that lurking in his room all summer is not an option?

I was thinking more on the lines of teen mental health professionals. He sounds as though he could be depressed or agoraphobic.

Cross-posted with everyone (slow typist!)

Yes, I think there may be some middle ground here between your energetic, go-for-it attitude (which is great btw) and his, errm, less forthcoming one. He needs to find out that he CAN enjoy some of the things on offer in the world.

If things have got this bad, then courses are not going to be the way to go - there are too many unknowns for him, and he needs to be eased back into normality, starting with getting him back to a day/night schedule.

Time lock the PC (don't punish him by taking this away, but have it downstairs and only accessible during the times you define), and then take him out with you - anywhere will do. Then start going swimming, to the gym, skating. If you have friends with 12 year old boys (or a bit older), bribe them to go places with him by paying for their day out.

He may never have known his parents, but he is still a bereaved child who has been brought up by granny who was grieving herself. I have a friend who was in a very similar circumstance, and it affected him for a very long time - into his 30's. Professional help would be worth seeking

Lancelottie, my idea was that he had to do one of the courses and couldn't give it up unless he picked another one and did that instead.

We would love him to see a counsellor but he wouldn't go willingly so there doesn't seem much point. We may know more when we've 'got' him. It's also very complicated because he doesn't know how his parents died and I don't think it's something we should just break to him until he asks. I don't actually think it's massively relevant at the moment, I think he's been allowed to do nothing and likes it.

What worries me is that, in my upbringing, this sort of behaviour would have got me nowhere with my parents, they would just have made me do stuff. But he comes from a very different background and I want to avoid coming across as a bully, making him do stuff. He is my new son in lots of ways!

Trice, he may well be depressed. Anyone would be after months indoors. But I don't think he's agoraphobic because he came to us for the weekend without a problem. Ostensibly he's scared to go out because the boys who bullied him are local and although I think this was true initially, it's now more than that.

CMOT thanks for your very helpful post. You've voiced exactly what I've been worrying about. He loves DS (10 months) so perhaps we can start off with trips to the park etc.

I do also have a friend whose boys are older but like younger kids and do some babysitting. I'll give her a call.

Thanks rubyruby, DP has a close relationship with him, was around at home when he was little. There are lots of things he will definitely do with us, i.e. scrabble, talking, DP is coaching him in maths, teaching him programming. But I do need to get him out of the house or I'm worried he won't have the confidence to go to school in September after so much time away. I need to build his self-esteem.

We have tennis racquets and live next to some beautiful grass courts! One of the courses I want him to do is tennis for beginners, so perhaps we could entice him to do that with promises that he and DP can play together.

I could be talking nonsense as I have no expierence of this. I can only think through what I would do.

I think softly softly is the answer and get him used to living as a family.

Setting routines ie. getting up and dressed in the morning, sure let him have computer time. Same with bed time.

Again I can only speak for what happens here but around 10 o'clock my nearly 11 year old and 14 year old are told it's bed time in 15,(mins) lights out by half past.
Phones, DS's, PSPs iTouches or anything else they have are taken off them and charged downstairs so there is no midnight playing on them.

I get what your doing about the courses. Maybe give it ago.

I'd give advance warning about going out as a family. Here we say things like 'Ok your going to be at the skate park tomorrow? Right need you back for 3 because all of us are going out somewhere' Of course we get sulks but it's about keeping the family together with a compromise.

With your DN arriving you are starting a new family.

I hope it goes well for you. Im expecting your are anticipaing a few hiccups. I'm sure there will be a few problems but over the long term I'm sure it will work out because by the sound of it you are doing your best to make it work.

if his day/night is confused, then you need to change that, but gradually, maybe half an hour or so at a time, ot get his body used to sleeping at night/being awake in the day. TBH you might need some professional input. Personally I'd be quite wary of coming across all gung-ho (even though it's with the best of intentions) as that may make him shut you out as well.
OTOH if he's just being a pain/can't be bothered, then perhaps be a bit tougher.

Upahill, good advice. I too believe spending lots of time together is key - to build a family.

Actually I think he would go anywhere with us but nowhere without us. Possibly the reverse of many children his age.

He has every device under the sun, granny got him stuff to make up for not being able to do more things with him. I'd like to wean him off all the devices and promote more wholesome activities!

I'm keen to get him to go out and meet people via these courses because at school he always gravitates towards the naughty kids, he thinks mucking around, being rude etc. is the coolest thing. He has no idea how much trouble this could get him into where we live in London (he's from Oxford). If he could just have a couple of friends before he starts we could maybe rein this in a bit.

I'd start the other way round with the tennis - gentle games together or with the other boys, and then see if he wants to go to tennis club night/short course - making building blocks of confidence in what he can do.

Don't underestimate getting some other boys round for a DVD or play on the Wii together - sometimes a lot of boy bonding is fairly silent, but will help him develop the new normality.

Try and put aside what your parents would have done or said - this is very different.
It might also be that talking about his parents would be of use - children who aren't told can sometimes twist the bits of information they get and overhear into something terrible, or fear that it is going to happen to them too - a bit of depression can be extended to 'I'm going to be mad like my mum and end up killing myself' iyswim. Again, I know this happened with my friend.

Counselling for you and DP as you move through this huge change in your family might be worth exploring - might also make counselling the norm and make DN more accepting of it

Thanks again CMOT, I'm finding your posts very helpful. The issues of his parents death is tough, granny tried to talk about it but he appears completely disinterested. I would like to know what he knows, because he can't think they just drifted off.. But the reality is too ugly to tell and granny has said she would die before he knew the truth. He has a 19 year old sister who has been told something that is not the truth (although bizarrely, equally horrible).

So, he was split from his sister too ? I believe feigning disinterest can be common - it's a way of protecting themselves from it all.
Nothing is too ugly to tell - the precise details maybe, but he deserves to know the truth of this important part of his life, especially if his sister has been told something horrible but untrue. Again - major echoes here in all ways

His sister still lives with granny, an amazingly bright girl, she left school and is working in a cafe. We were initially worried about taking him away from her but she's 19 now and doesn't spend much time at home anyway. He'll go back there to visit of course. Granny has said he can go 'home' whenever he wants which of course is not the idea we want to give. Of course he can visit granny but we need him to see this as his home.

I would have told him a fraction of the truth, but not a lie ifswim, right from the beginning but that hasn't been done. Granny has tried several time to talk about it but he refuses to listen. I've talked to a professional about this and the advice seems to be tread very carefully and just let him know he is free to talk about it. He may not be ready till his twenties or thirties. But I have no idea how I would tell him if he asked.