The "People Should Get Involved In Other Parents Lives" Thing

[NotQuiteCockney]

People here often say, oh, people should get more involved when parents around them are doing bad things etc etc. I think I sometimes even agree with this.

Spending a few weeks in Canada, where people apparently do get involved in other parents' lives, has made me realise this is a bad thing.

Today, I was in a shop. DS1 (nearly 4) needed to wee. There was no toilet in the shop (and there are no public toilets in this country). I said: "go outside, pee on a tree". I went running after him, with DS2, leaving my stuff behind (at least it was a quiet shop). I found DS1 outside, trousers and pants down, not peeing, looking confused. Some woman had told him "no! don't do that!". He was peeing on a tree in the sidewalk, which no doubt gets peed on by a hundred dogs a day. He's not yet four. She scuttled off after I showed up, unsurprisingly.

I've also had people tell me off for leaving DS2 outside shops (with DS1). DS2 sometimes gets upset, he's often tired and cranky, so if I'm to do my shopping quickly in a tiny shop, it's best to leave him out. They also always want to know what's wrong with him, I don't know why.

And everyone seems to think Toronto is incredibly dangerous. I can't leave a baby on the porch (on a quiet street) for a minute while I rush upstairs to grab something. There are apparently evil kidnapping pedophiles everywhere. (I'm bad: my father asked me "do you have the same problem with pedophiles in the UK that we have here?" I said: "Well ... if you mean a massive paranoia about stranger danger, when the biggest risk to kids is from people they know, then, yes, we've got that problem.")

So I'm officially happy with the UK, where people may think you're a horrible parent or disapprove of boys peeing on trees (as I did, pre-toilet-training DS1), but at least they think these things silently!

Oooh, and I thought of another one - someone noticed I wasn't wearing a wedding ring (I tend not to, although I am married) and pointedly called me "Miss" in a pizza joint. I thought he was just being weird, and said something about it (something like, "it's very flattering, but a bit strange when I have two kids with me") ... and he said "It's all good, it continues the race".

I really hope he meant "species", not "race". But whatever he meant, how weird! And he called me "miss" again later.

And he wasn't even old - I'd expect an older man to disapprove of an (apparently) unwed mother.

whats strange about having two kids with you and still not being married?

im not sure i get it?

and cant see how that was disapproving? (sorry spelling shot)!

I think NQC was making the point about the WAY he said 'Miss' that indicated he disapproved.

I haven't taken my ds to the UK yet ! But here in Switzerland people give you funny looks if your baby is crying, always say something like 'Oh he must be hungry' or 'where is his dummy'.... very helpful! I wonder what useful things people will say when he is a bit older!

This 'getting involved' thing is ironic isn't it ?

Some people want to comment about other people parenting, but don't feel able to :

I am quoting from recent threads here - is that some people think that if a child was smacked round the head, in a supermarket, people should voice their opinions.
Some people want to make a comment, some people want to but are too scared to, and some people think that we shouldn't make comments, even if we do have an opinion.

And then there are lots of people in this world, who gladly give their little pearls of wisdom, - NQC's silly waiter, when really he should have kept his opinion to himself.

Whats ironic is that at times when we maybe should make a comment, some people feel unable to.

And at times when people really should keep their opinions to themselves, people openly voice their views.

nightowl, he didn't seem disapproving exactly, it was just rather pointed. I certainly don't look young, and I've never called myself "Miss" anything, so I found it unpleasant. My sister (who is unmarried with one kid, and lives here) has said she's had questions and hassle from people about this - people also disapprove of the fact her name isn't the same as her partner's.

RachD, I think what I really mean is, if people feel free to express their opinions, they'll express them all the bloody time. And I'm not sure telling someone who's hitting their kid around the head that it's not nice, will help, frankly. Offering some sort of support might help, but I know I wouldn't be comfortable doing that, I get so angry at people I see hitting kids!

I get frustrated with being called Mrs!! Would be glad for someone to not just assume i am married because i have dd.

DD has a different surname to me, so people refer to me as Mrs (dd's surname) and it sooo bugs me. If you don't know my name, don't guess just ask me!

In some countries calling you Miss is considered flattering. I am always called Miss when on holiday in Italy and Spain even when I am with my DH and 3 kids.....

Anyway, I am suprised about this as Canada is considered third best country to live in on UN's "human development report". Only beaten by Norway and Sweden. Perhaps it's because people DO interfere in these countries? UK, is way down on the list by the way.

IME Canada's very freaky about children going missing - I got grilled at immigration there five years ago because DD travelled on an NZ passport, I was on UK one and DH wasn't with me. Then in the baggage claim area there are masses of photos of 'our missing children'. That was Ottawa btw.

SueW: I've come into the country on my own with DS1 a couple of times. Because I'm on a Canadian passport and he's on a British one, and we have different surnames, they asked if I had a letter from his dad. Which I did have, as I had been worried about this exact thing. I'm not sure what the letter proved though, it wasn't notarised or anything.

Hattie05, I feel pretty much the same way, only I am married. But I don't have the same surname as my kids, and I don't call myself Mrs. According to my sister, everyone here takes their husbands' names.

FM: I don't mind being called "mademoiselle" in French. It's different than Miss, somehow.

I never know what to think about all those UN reports. Canada always does well, and I never know why. The weather's dreadful. It's a very car-dependant culture. Oh, but it is pleasantly multi-cultural, and the food is good.

I think people who hit their children round the head should be arrested. I think shouting at them is a very minor thing and we should all do it.

I would also feel quite flattered about being called a Miss in a Dick Emery, "ooh you are awful' sort of way. Sadly.

aloha, I figure people who hit their kids either a) think it's the right thing to do, and shouting at them won't help - they might just start hitting you instead (although then they could be arrested, as hitting adults is illegal) b) are otherwise sensible people who are having a hard time, in which case shouting will just make them have a hard time.

Or I guess it could be a mix of the two.

I never manage to say anything, even when it happens in a place where smacking is forbidden (some child drop-ins). And I'm pretty brave about confronting people.

I do think smacking should be made illegal.

ah think i get what you mean nqc...not what he said so much but the way he said it!

its none of his business anyhow!

I shouted at someone who was whacking their child around the head, and they stopped. If everyone did it, nobody would do it, iyswim. It's dangerous! It's abusive. I can't stand by and do nothing.

NQC this holiday seems to have focussed your mind on how much you prefer London to Canada - I think you should just go ahead and take the next step which would be to drop the Not and become QuiteCockney.

Reasons not to go to Canada...

bran, I really really couldn't ever be Cockney. I just couldn't. The accent will never go, and frankly I enjoy having that strange exemption from the normal rules that you get by being a (white, English-speaking) immigrant in the UK.

I do like it here, the food is great. And nobody's really poked their nose in my business for the last day or so.

(hijack: bran, now you have a little one, do you want to meet up sometime? Are you home with your baby during the week? How old is he?)

I would love to meet up NQC. Ds is 14 months and we are free pretty much anytime except Tuesday mornings when we go to Gymboree. Ds is fascinated with older boys at the moment and would love to trail after your ds1 with slavelike devotion.

We get back on Aug 27th (I think? A friday), so the week after that would be good for us. DS1 is back at school from something like September 8th or something? A Wednesday. From which point he's busy before 3:15. So we could meet before September 8th, or after then, some afternoon (not Thursdays). I often have two 3-year-olds in the afternoon, but it makes little difference to my plans.

DS2 is 11 months now, so reasonably interesting and interactive. I plan to start taking him to John Smith and Baby Bounce more after this trip, stopping him sleeping in the morning, but we'll see how that works out.

Being canadian and having lived in the uk, I get what you are saying NQC. We have invented the saying "hyperparenting". Recently, a car stopped in the middle of the road and the father leaned out and proceed to lecture me for letting my 3 year old run down the sidewalk, not (road mind you, sidewalk plus I was walking behind him but apparently not close enough). He advised me he NEVER let his daughter out of his sight. Funny, I didn't see her in the car... I guess he had really big eyes and long vision! I love canada but we do tend to be a bit whiny and smug (bizarre combination I know). Comes from our massive inferiority complex we have developed by living so close to the United States in my opinion. Spend all our time trying to prove something to somebody. Moving back to uk next year and really looking forward to it.

christie, that's exactly the sort of thing I mean!

Unfortunately, my sister is (thoroughly) Canadian and disturbed by the fact I don't hold DS1's hand on the pavement, or while crossing the road. He stays beside me when crossing, and is good on the pavement.

DH agrees about the "whiny and smug" thing. I see what you mean, too.

Whenever I'm away for a while, I miss Canada and start thinking about how to move back. Once we're back, it takes a few days (if that!) and I remember why I left.

Which bit of Canada are you from/in? Which bit of the UK do you go to? And is your partner British or Canadian or other?

NQC I've CATted you my contact details. I'm looking forward to meeting up with you.