Passport application problems - anyone had this situation?

[Abubu]

Hi,

I am trying to help my Mum apply for a passport.

She had a passport many years ago that she shared with my Dad - it is a black passport really old, issued in the 80s I am guessing.

Anyway my Mum was born in China and has been a British citizen since geting married to my Dad over 30 years ago.

However she has no documentation at all that identifies her - birth certificates were not issued in the small town in China where she was born, they have lost their marriage certificate (they are the worlds most disorganised people) and they cannot easily get it replaced as they got married in Hong Kong in the 70s. She basically has no documentation at all to prove who she is apart from her old passport.

I have just called up and they said it is fine as long as she gets someone to countersign and sends in the old passport.

However my Dad said when he called up they said she needs to treat it as a first passport as her first passprot was a dual one with my Dad and therefore doesn't count - and therefore she needs to provide some of the identifying documents that she doesn't have.

So not sure who has been told the wrong info here.

I'm going to tell my parents to just send it in anyway - the most the passport office can do is reject it I guess - but just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this kind of thing before in case they do reject it?

I'm guessing anyone else having this situation is unlikely but worth a shot.

Thanks!

try the post office check and send service? might be a starting point.

are you sure she is british? did she apply for citizenship? i guess she must have done to get on your dad's old passport. have they no documents relating to the citizenship application?

They should be able to establish her nationality (and therefore her right to have a passport ) based on the information they have on file from the issue of the hardback passport. I'm guessing their query is to her identity?

You may have to obtain copies of the original marriage certificate? But if that is impossible, then there should be an immigration file on your mother still in existence, and if she naturalised when she married your father, there should also be a Nationality file on her. These files will be together somewhere and the passport office can always access them to check "status" if they are not satisfied with the docs produced.

I would have thougt that other documents (pensions stuff? bank stuff? National could be accepted as proof of identity.

I would give them another ring just to clarify, but I'd have thought what you were told sounds about right and there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Be careful about sending the application without checking everything first as the fes are non refundable.

I would imagine you can get a replacement marriage certificate from the authorities in Hong Kong

she needs to establish nationality.

there was a case a few years back in which a lady had been born in America to a British woman married to an American man.

she had moved back to England at the age of about 2 with her mother when the marriage broke down, some 60 odd years before and never left the UK again.

got married, had kids, grandkids, etc.

went to get a passport.

she was not British!

she had to go through her MP and raise allmighty ruckus to get it all sorted out!

the HO wanted to deport her!

Does she have a National Insurance Number and National Health Card?
There must be some sort of trail leading to documents which provide proof of ID.

i wouldn't just send off the old passport either - I would be worried they would lose it. Def take a photocopy beforehand.

'Anyway my Mum was born in China and has been a British citizen since geting married to my Dad over 30 years ago.'

See, this really concerns me.

Because getting married to a British national has never conferred automatic British nationality on anyone.

In fact, British nationality has never been automatic even if a person is born in the UK.

This has always been the case.

I'm concered past procedure meant she was able to travel to the UK on her husband's passport, but is not actually a British national.

it can all be done and sorted, but i would follow the advice here. dont let go of original documentation. spend a bit more and actually be in the same building whilst they are sorting it out. it can be done. my father lost his original hong kong birth certificate, and my grandmother had to do a sworn statement type thing that she was in hongkong when he was born, in the thirties.
good luck and dont listen to anyone who says it cant be done
oh, and regarding birth certificates, my original is dated 8 years after i was born, not in the uk obviously. and i have a passport from my previous nationality from the age of three ish when they want to t hey can

Oh, it can be done, but, as an immigrant myself, anyone who was not born a British national must prove they are entitled to be.

Even first time childrens' passports. You have to prove they are British nationals.

That should be the first port of call.

On the current form, you have to stump up a naturalisation certificate if you're not a born British national.

yes that's why i asked if she is sure she is british. you don't become british by marrying a brit.

As far as her nationality is concerned, if she was born in Hong Kong herself (rather than China- I'm presuming here she was, as you state she married in HK) then she would most probably have been a British Subject herself at the time of her birth. (depends on dates, but if as you say she is in her 80s now, her birth in HK would have given her BS status which later changed to CUKC status. That doesn't necessarily mean she became a British Citizen when we all did, (1/1/83) but she might well have done.

Otherwise, her marriage to your father, (again presuming he was a British Subject at the time) would have given her automatic right to become one (under the old Nationality Acts marriage to a Brit did confer these rights) Subsequently when they came to the UK she would have been granted right of abode, which under the 81 Nationality Act (as a BS/CUKC with ROA) on 1/1/83 she would have become a British Citizen when the latest big Nationality Act came into force.

This is all probability you understand (and it's been 15 yrs since I worked in the Nationality office so my memory of the laws- especially prior to 81 is rusty!) but I don't think, in either scenario, her nationality is going to be a problem. Only thing would be if she remained a British Subject in her own right (which then changed to British Dependant Territories Citizen and then to something else I can't remember (Overseas something or other) and never actually became a British Citizen.

What does it actually say inside the existing passport for her nationality? (hopefully it says both of them are Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies with Right of Abode.)

Of course if she was actually born in China, then scrap the first idea above and check she became a CUKC on marriage to your father!

D'oh, just reread OP and see she was born in China.

So, presumption is they were married prior to 81 (which given their ages I imagine they were) and so she had the right to status on marriage to your father.

Again, check what the passport says. I imagine though that as I said before, she became a CUKC through her marriage, gained ROA when they came over here, and became a BC on 1/1/83.

Does she have any other nationality?

Hi,

Wow I wasn't expecting that many responses!
My Mum and Dad married in 1975 and she is in her mid 60s now. My Dad is a British national.

She was born in China but moved to Hong Kong later when she was about 13 I think.

If she was on a dual passport before I thought that meant that she is a British citizen but not sure? I will be very surprised if not.

Eek - all very confusing.

Pollylogos - if they can't process the application can they still take the money anyway?

Thanks all.

Just to add - the ironic thing is that she doesn't even really need a passport - she has no plans to travel anywhere. She only wants it so that it can act as the ID for her to get her photo driving license!

this is a good place to get more information, too.