Unfit parents.

[anais]

Is anyone watching this? Any thoughts?

Boe, the social security system does encourage a single mother to find a job when her children are of school age. It is actually cheaper to keep them on benefits rather than pay for childcare whilst they are at work.I know several mothers who once their children are at school have been sent to work and they love it.
As for my position being a parent of a disabled son who is in school full time. I am unable to work. WHY??? He has specialist needs that I have DEMANDED to be taught so not to be a drain on society. When he is poorly which happens quite often, I look after him because he is MY responsibility. For him to be cared for whilst I am in work would run into thousands of £££££ in tax payers money. Yes I do have a husband who is his dad but he is not trained up to look after him. I am his sole carer.We do not have social services involvement or respite neither. Even though they have asked if I want these I have said no because he is my responsibility.
Yes you are right you do not know Anais position, it is her business. Just remember we can all be quick to fall on hard times.

Doormat, your final sentence sums it up for me. Thank you.

I don't actually want to get into this debate because it makes me so very angry... but the idea that people live a life of luxury on benefits is simply not true and those that do are almost with out a doubt defrauding the system by earning cash in hand etc., etc., And as for the idea of teenage mothers living off handouts and having four kids (urgh!!!!!!!!) Yes, there will always be an exception to the rule but frankly what kind of great life is it for that teenager or her children? She is still a child herself. The system has already let her down because in many areas of the country teenage motherhood is the only option;it is the only thing to aspire too! I would not want it for my daughter.

The welfare system is a safety net but there are so many reasons why people don't work, who the hell are we to judge? In a society that IMO makes it quite difficult for two average income parents to work (childcare fees and inflexibility), and where the culture is such that the reality means people dare not demand their parental working rights, holding down a job is a major breakthrough to begin with.

I was a single mother on benefits for a while, I then went to uni (which had a structure that made it possible) but the moment I hit the workforce (without a network of people to rely on) life became incredibly difficult and as such I've always had to take jobs doing things I am over qualified to be doing and that do not pay a massive amount. Many families (on average incomes)need WFTC to survive... should they be denied this becasue they should surely just go out and earn more?

Will stop ranting now (as this is rather off topic). I didn't see the programme but am glad that these individuals do get to have a 'normal' life in which they are happy. Thank goodness we no longer live in an age where people who are 'different' are locked up away from the world.

sorry Boe I thought it was funny in a ludicrous sort of way- no offence- just pc-ism being taken to extremes! I would like to use it with the pros and watch them squirm.

Boe you write that you woud love to stay at home or work part time. The reality is if you had my child (or doormats) you would HAVE to - you wouldn't have any choice- whether or not that meant you could no longer afford your mortgage/whatever.

Nobody has suggested they should be locked up.

I did feel that Tracy and particularly Mark had a very rosy idea of what having a baby meant. They did seem to like the idea of the sweet and cuddly little newborn, and I just felt that as a couple they had even less idea than the rest of us about what they were actually letting themsleves in for. And because of that lack of understanding, I didn't think they were in a position to care for a brood of kids.

Doormat - I really was trying to be concillatory - I think you and other mothers of "differently abled" children do a wonderful job with not enough support. I'm sorry that that obviously didn't come across in my post.

Doormat - as I said there are lots of different scenarios and my post did not apply to yours - I believe that you should have as much help as possible - much more than I am sure is given to you. This is not out of pity but because I feel that Welfare is for those who have fallen on hard times or have had things happen to them out of their control (ie. the birth of a differentially abled child).

I feel that we all have to realise that there is a line to be drawn somewhere and that some of us do not have choices because we cannot afford to, that's life!!

I fully agree that working families tax credit is a great thing and that benefits are also, and are a result of a compassionate society - I just feel that it is all mismanaged and the system as a whole is open to abuse.

I really think though that realistically we have to realise that our decision to have the next child should be partly based on whether we can afford to and we cannot expect the state to pick up the tab. I am not saying that people should not have the option to have children but should be more responsible and realistic when making this decision.

Winnie1 - and I don't mean this to sound patronising - you are a great example of how it is possible to survive and I have the utmost respect for you.

"Boe you write that you woud love to stay at home or work part time. The reality is if you had my child (or doormats) you would HAVE to - you wouldn't have any choice- whether or not that meant you could no longer afford your mortgage/whatever. "

A prime example of what I would love my taxes to be spent on - respite, education and help for people in your very situation - people are losing out because our taxes are being mismanged and people are abusing the systen because they feel they have a right to have a child that they cannot financially provide for.

I do not have a new car or have not been on holiday for god knows how long because I cannot afford to - I cannot have another child - although would dearly love one because at the moment I cannot afford to - I am being realistic and taking responsibility for my actions!!

prufrock and boe I am in no way offended by your comments, so please dont be offended by mine. This is an adult debate and we all have our own views and opinions. What I am trying to do is to explain that there are alot of grey areas and nothing should be determined as being black and white, as Jimjams said alot of grey!!This is what a healthy debate should be about.
Boe the social security system is abused.I dont like it and I dont think anyone else likes the idea of the abuse that goes on neither. But it happens.It sickens me when you see people claiming disablement benefits and then working on the side. It is about time this government done something about it and other types of fraud and helped out the true needy in this country.

Fio2, Jimjams I think you both know where I am coming from regarding disabled people having children. Before I had a disabled child my views were probably the same as the others but sitting on the other side of the fence now life events have changed my opinions.
Winnie1 It is a very emotive subject.

oh doormat I have done so many total u-turns since having a disabled child. I really wish I had posted on here from the beginning I would be able to chart my chages of opinion. I would love for ds1 to have children, even if he did need some help from the state/me/whoever (see my much earlier comments about two adult autistics I know with children).

interesting thread. Wish I had time to read it all properly now - I'll have to come back to it later.

I second what you have said jimjams and yes doormat know exactly how you feel. Watching the programme made me feel that things have really changed and maybe one day this could be my little girl getting married having a child but at the moment we just dont know what the future holds for her. Anyway she only 3 1/2 and I dont want to wish her life away for her!

@ fio. I guess what I'm saying is that if he is able to form the type of relationship as an adult that could produce a child, but needed help with some aspects of life I guess I wouldn't want someone saying he shouldn't reproduce. I'm just thinking of the people I know and how it works for them. Actually I try not have any expectations of either of the boys- just hope they're happy and able to do what they want.

jimjams you have echoed my feelings exactly. Happiness is all I want for my two whatever they turn out to be

ditto

Thank god times have changed!!!!!

Boe, I appreciate you not taking offence at my previous post - I apologise - it was a little abrupt...I'm not offended or upset by your post - as someone else said this is an adult debate, wouldn't be mcuh fun if we all agreed

I'm not going to discuss the HE, as I don't believe that is relevant to this. I plan, by the time we start HE, to be self-sufficient. I never wanted to be on benefits, and I have tried damn hard right the way through to get off benefits, but it's not that easy. Ever heard of the poverty trap? I either compromise on my childrens needs by going out to work and leaving them or I stay on benefits.

I should -very soon - be starting a job as a chat line operator while my little ones are asleep. Once we've moved I will childmind, and by doing these jobs I believe I should be able to get off benefit.

You suggest that once my kids are of school age I should be forced into work. The schools here are awful. My children would get a second rate education - why should they suffer because of the situation they were born into?