Whats wrong at M&S?

[Kia]

I heard a phone in about M&S on Radio5live the other day about why M&S has gone downhill and thought I'd ask you what you thought. For what it's worth my problems are that it used to be when you bought say a black skirt at Marks you knew it would be the same colour exactly as the Marks jacket and/or trousers you had at home. You didn't have to fart about checking the colour in the light, or take in the other bit of the suit to check, you just strode in got your correct size and out. The other thing is that you can buy a bra if you're concave or if you look like one of those italian porn stars but heaven help you if you're ms average!! It seems to me that Marks are trying to be something for everyone and failing their core business badly. I'm not in the twin-set and pearls brigade (yet!) and even they don't seem to be represented any more, just this sort of chelsea girl got older and tattier look. I'd be ashamed to say I was the M&S buyer who chose some of the clothes they currently have on display!

I totally agree Kia, I think they haven't a clue who they're aiming their clothes for, I can't find anything for me in my mid 20's, but equally my Mum in her 50's and even my Grandma in her 70's have said the same! Even when they've said they are changing things it doesn't look like they have at all. I don't think anyone was conned into the whole 'we've changed our sizes to represent real women' scam -as ultimately if the clothes fit, they fit - if I'm a 14 in M&S and a 18 somewhere else, big deal. I think the children's clothes are mainly awful with few exceptions and you get better quality for the same price or cheaper at other high st. stores (I have to say the baby vests are good quality and 4 for £9, bit of a bargain). I like the underwear but agree with what you say kia, even though I'd like to have the figure of Italian porn star! AND I just bought one of those tactel, stretchy material bra's in Asda for £6 compared to the one in Mark's for £12 - there is no difference between them. I can't fault the food though, it's tasty enough to make you feel you're treating yourself without costing an absolute fortune. It's an odd one because in a way, call it nostalgia, I want them to be good again, but do you think it's about time they were laid to rest for good....?

I think you're right, they have tried to be like other outlets instead of keeping to themselves. Normally you can find an outfit for all occassions in Marks dont know about now. They had some good maternity clothes last time I was in there and some nice clothes for my son, I'll go in there when I am next expecting. I used to get my underwear from there but like you say everybody does the same now and I think they should go back to being that special somewhere to go and feel like you have spoilt yourself with something special. I agree with you Lizzer, food is good.

I'm just amazed at how tatty and lacklustre the displays are in our local M&S. The food is lovely, but the clothes look boring and nasty. Plus I find that even with all that palaver about women being Big and Proud of it, their sizes seem to actually be a bit smaller than the other stores. I can fit a size 16 in other shops, but not M&S! And I know it's silly, but I'd rather go home without any new clothes than go up to size 18!

Where do you start?! Only selling children's clothes with Tweenies or Bob the Builder on them (although as the last shop in the High St to sell vests with poppers for 2-3 year olds, they deserve a mention); hideous clothes for women unless you look at the Autograph Collection, and I'd sooner spend that kind of cash in Karen Millen or Planet, thanks; bizarre clothes for men; but, crucially, I think their approach to customer service has gone out the window. I used to have a student job in a suburban M & S and the customer really did come first there. Nothing was too much trouble. Nearly 20 years on, they have got rid of all the paypoints dotted round the store, and you have to shuffle along a rope with half of SE London. In Central London, most of the staff are apparently on dodgy contracts which means no sick pay and no leave, or so two of them were grumbling at Marble Arch.
No-one's mentioned their furniture, which is well made, and provided you aren't after anything too original, pleasantly designed. So how come they're getting it so wrong with the clothes?

Same as everyone else I think. The foods fab but the little boys clothes are dreadful and Principles/Next/Monsoon/Laura Ashley/gap/Racing Green better for clothes now.

They should stick to doing simple items well - like a really well cut white t-shirt , black tailored skirt etc. I've worked in the fashion departments of a couple of women's magazines and all the fashion editors used to buy posh suits and wear them with m&s t-shirts (or bodies as were popular at the time.... oooh they were uncomfortable) - because they knew that everyone else would know where they'd got the suits from (and it obviously mattered to them) but could get away with buying the basics at M&S. Now Marks' has tried to be too trendy - and is blooming expensive to boot. I'm sorry, but I don't want to buy some funky printed skirt that costs £50, no matter how nice it is, because you can guarantee that everyone will know where it came from and at least five other people will be wearing it. Better to stick to something plain that doesn't shout its "wear-abouts". Food is pretty scrummy though. Oh yes, and the boys wear is pants... and no I'm not talking about the underwear.

I would walk over hot coals for one of their prawn sandwiches (can't spell sarni) I love their food. BUT!! Clothes are shot to hell I'm afraid. But if we can see what's wrong why can't they? I mean we're just the customers aren't we!! Well, not any more I'm not. I agree about the boys clothes, its such a long time since I bought baby gear I'm not really qualified to say anything either way. But their ladies wear is really pants. (to borrow a phrase!) We should offer our services, because someone in M&S is pulling in a whacking great salary under false pretences!!

Agree about the food - the ONLY supermarket to do a decent vegetarian range and their cheese scones are to die for. Little girl clothes are still lovely but pricey compared to Laura Ashley I think. But their clothes for girls over six are vile - all halter necks and tight pants and all in various vile shades of mauve and beige - YUCK! The Autograph range is quite nice but pricey and I'd only be willing to pay those prices if I knew who'd designed what (why don't they show this?).

Something I forgot to add that I heard on the 5Live discussion was how one lady hated the fact that M&S is now a series of shops within a shop and that if you are fat (her words!) you had to shop in this section for 'fat ladies' and that you should only be allowed out in grey or black! She felt that 'specially for the larger lady' meant to her 'fat ladies only'! I also agree about the sizes, whatever has happened to reliable M&S sizes? I don't think it matters if you are size 8 or 18, the people doing the original sizing must need new glasses! The other thing in the discussion was that they couldn't believe the audience response they were having to a discussion about 'just a shop, after all'! Please let someone from M&S be reading this thread!! For the sake of my underwear if nothing else!!

The odd time I go into M&S I wonder 'who on earth wears this stuff?' It's all horrible - nasty fabrics, yukky colours. Yes, the upmarket stuff is better but still poor value. Dh used to shop in the men's dept, for basic jumpers and workshirts. But he says it's hopeless now. They were always useless at fashion items, but they were good if you wanted a black jumper, or trousers, or a plain tee shirt. Now they can't get these things right - there's always something not quite what you want about them, the neckline, or the cut. or something.

I think that the reason the food does so well is that M&S aren't afraid to charge more money than the supermarkets. This gives you a much better quality product. But they seem to have gone down the 'competitive pricing' road with their clothing, trying to compete with Asda and Tescos. Invariably this means a complete disregard for the quality of the product. Personally, I'd love to pay a bit more for children's clothes that were well made and classic. It would be lovely to be able to go to M&S and buy, say, a traditional pair of gingham pyjamas, rather than hideous Barbie ones. I'm biased though, my partner runs a company that used to make accessories for M&S and they've just been dumped so that M&S can buy cheap rubbish from the far east and sell it on at vastly inflated prices. So thanks, now our 150 year old small British company is going down the pan 'cos M&S can't sort themselves out...Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

I wish M&S could wind back the clock. Do they store examples of their old designs, I wonder. When I come across old 70's clothes in rag yards, the funkiest, brightest, most durable and wearable items are often from M&S circa 1960s and 1970s. I have come across dozens of their little mini dresses and blouses, some in tough cotton, others in polyester, bright and beautiful prints -would still look good today, if mini dresses etc. are your thing. They won hands down over other makes.

What I used to do, as a retro clothes stall holder, was to cut out the M& S label. It gave a vastly inaccurate size. In the 70's a size 16 was tiny. Also, I knew my customers would prefer to think that they had picked up a ex-Carnaby Street mini dress. Honestly M&S retro itmes used to fly off the rails. Japanse tourists were especilly keen customers.

If M&S bought them back,they'd make a fortune.

It's amazing isn't it how obvious it all seems? Nice plain pyjamas, good t-shirts, well cut plain skirts and trousers for work.. these should all be M&S staples. I used to buy all my basics there but can't find anything now. I like some of the Autograph range but with cardigans priced at £100 I feel I may as well go to Harvey Nicks.

Candy - I agree about the girls' clothes. DD is only just 12 months and so a lot of the baby stuff is fine, but the older stuff seemed to be for mini Shania Twains, all leopardprints and miniskirts.

I can only add to what others have already said. Well cut basics for adults and children. Whoever said plain pyjamas for children gets my vote. I don't want clothes with TV characters all over them. From M&S I would love to find a long tailored black skirt and trousers. Lots of plain t-shirts & bodies, cardigans & jumpers. I'd also like to find the clothes in cotton and wool mixes and not lots of synthetic mixes. I think their underwear, swimwear and food is great but surely they can sort themselves out with clothes. As far as their funky stuff is concerned, it is not funky enough for genuinely funky people and is too funky for most of its usual customers. If you are looking for unusual things, lets face it, you don't go to M&S.

Don't you think the harsh store lighting is awful? It is so unflattering and it drains the colour from the clothes. I'm sure if you put, say, Gap's stock in an M&S store, it would immediately look drab. And there's something very offputting about seeing an item with £100.00 price tag in a supermarket-like environment.

My other gripe is about the limited range of colours they use. It looks like they have vast vats of fuschia, mauve, navy, beige and turquiose dye simmering away and just dump lorry loads of clothing in each.

As for nightwear, for months I have been trying to find a 'T' shirt (not vest) and wide trousers set of PJs in jersey cotton in a practical, darkish colour. Plain, no motifs. I've made about a dozen visits to various M&S stores to look. Not once have I found anything resembling this - everything's much too fussy.

I agree the food is fab. But not easy to stock up, especially if you are pushing a pushchair, because so many of the M&S stores seem to be in hight streets, so no adjacent car parking to load in shopping.

Just come back from the big M & S store in Camberley, and can report that the clothing is truly YUKKY. However... a small glimmer of light... I found childrens traditional pyjamas in cotton - pale pink or blue - with piped edges for about £12. I get most of the childrens stuff from La Redoute. Can't find anywhere else that gives you 2 pairs of long jim jams for £12 or 3 polo necks for about £9! Brilliant, and no hassle of parking etc. etc.

How about this theory? whilst M&S were sitting on their laurels (!) the other stores caught up. Thats the consensus in my office today. I read in the paper tonight that everyone is buying big bridget jones knickers in france - of all places - because you can only get lurid thongs in M&S these days! Shall I look up the e-mail of their CEO and send him a link to our board?!! We were looking for flesh coloured pants to wear under white linen trousers last week and not a beige pair of drawers in sight! What is the world coming to?

I think the clothes sits on the shelves too long. There seems to be no change of stock all season. I can go into Gap every few weeks and things are constantly changing (apparently stocks changes every 6 weeks).

I have been pleased with their Monsoon type range. In their style but without the price tag to match.

I also bought the t-shirts with the thin straps with a built-in bra (these were in the underwear section) I've been wearing them all summer as t-shirts.

Unfortunately I've been looking at the same swimsuits for months on end hoping for a new style to appear, no such luck!

I really think they should stop trying to cater for children's clothing over the age of about 8 or 9.

I always found the babywear to be lovely and would always recommend their sleepsuits.

I think they need to bring back the more mature buyer. My MIL never stops going on about how she can no longer find anything. Her taste is fairly normal!

Can't find the CEO's email yet, but I've only been on it a day! They have appointed a woman from Etam to be their womenswear design director and I've been trying to find her e-mail - cut out the middleman/person as it were! I'll be back!! I agree about the big pants - I have a couple of pairs of 'sloggi' and they're great. I did try thongs but ended up very sore! Some people swear by them.

And another thing!!! Today I went to m&s to get boychild new school shirts yet again due to massive growth spurt and was told they had no boys or girls school shirts in because they had to make room for Christmas decorations. They would have some more in around February time, she said helpfully! With my blood pressure spraying our of my ears I was led away by beloved to take my custom elsewhere.

And before anyone says anything like I should change my name to Stresshead - aaarrgghh!