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Politics, religion and terrorism - challenging the current approach

47 replies

Papillon · 25/07/2005 11:16

Ladies and gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelts we are about to fly into both chartered and unchartered territory and it may get bumpy.

more in a minute - unless someone else takes the talking stick.

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Jimjams · 25/07/2005 23:07

I voted tory for the 1st time ever. Partly it was a vote against the war, partly a vote against my useless MP and partly a vote for the maintenance of special schools.

The whole thing is a mess. I have a Iraqui aquantance (although havn't seen her since ds1 left mainstream). She has family in Bagdhad - the stories of how her family were living were pretty shocking.

Papillon · 26/07/2005 08:06

Found an article about British Muslim youth which might provide some food for thought.

Young Muslims have been totally marginalised by their "community leaders". Nothing will change until they are given representation

  • New Statesman - Beyond blame and shame: what we must do now

Also went looking for discussion regarding MMP in the UK, found this website which is a forum of various discussions -

Real democracy: The groundswell for change

Storm for Reform - the campaign for real democracy begins

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Papillon · 26/07/2005 14:25

I feel the islamic would hate us alot less if we did not try and control their homelands. This is why I am posting information about alternative political structures because a more diverse representation of the people´s voice / interest groups / women are in parliament. Its where I would place my energy if a UK citizen in regards to the war on terror.

It takes time to change this of course but I see FTP as an democratic dictatorship because its too central, and politicans can act in opposite manner of the citizen.

Further about the Green party - In Germany the hold about 17% of the seats in parliament. In NZ its not that high but they have about 2 seats in the house.

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monkeytrousers · 26/07/2005 15:46

How about a petition (or a formal complaint to the Beeb) stating these aims. It's a first draft so keep that in mind and sorry for any bad spelling and grammer.

..

We the undersigned believe that our society is being failed by it's politicians and its media.

By signing our names below, we make a stand for the Muslim communities of the UK, who must constantly listen to the words "Islam' and 'terrorism,' uttered by media pundit and politician alike, as though the two were inextricably linked.

We make a symbolic gesture of solidarity in the hope that this will help to unite all creeds in the face of terrorism and not follow the terriorsts own script when it comes to the corruption of Islam.

We ask the media, and specifically, as a cornerstone of British identity, the BBC, to make a bold and public gesture with us. In a war that is fought with words as much as it is with military hardware, we ask you to challenge the script you are given and we must then listen to. We ask you to transform the the current approach, as it only obfuscates and leaves us more ignorant of issues that affect us directly. We ask you to enable us to make the right choices. But to do that we need to know the whole story.

In this spirit we make a stand for the people of Iraq, mothers and fathers of beloved children just like us, except they live daily in fear and grief for those killed in our name and for our freedoms. To reiterate to them that many of us marched for the cause of peace, but in our free land our voices were not heard and our free media was soon back on the leash.

We make a stand for the starving of Niger, whose current abject fate was known by those in power as they debated world poverty in Gleneagles. For the starving children whose pictures are shown to us nightly, but who's story was deemed unnewsworthy by a media who now revel in their wretchedness, until now, which for many of them is too late.

Finally we make a stand for the millions more unknown, and ask that our leaders and institutions we reassess their national moral compass.

monkeytrousers · 26/07/2005 15:47

Posted that on 3 different threads. They're all the same.

peacedove · 26/07/2005 17:44

good thread

marches and protests about Palestine and other Muslim issues like Kashmir have been going on for as far back as I can remember.

Reading the Guardian always gave one the impression that in the current election to be held, or that the government would listen to the voice of the people.

Did not happen where the Muslim lands were concerned.

The only exception were South Africa, and Zimbabwe.

For South Africa Barclays and other major British investors stopped investing in the apartheid regime, and gradually it came down. Can't remember what part the US played.

happymerryberries · 26/07/2005 17:52

But disinvestment from S Africa wasn't done by the UK government either, but by pressure from ordinary people.

Papillon · 26/07/2005 17:54

nice to see you here

actually started another thread because of the slackness in discussion... and made the title more light and non-directional.

Can´t chat now be back soonish.

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PeachyClair · 26/07/2005 18:51

Yep, I voted against Labour for the first time over this. Didn't march but couldn't rather than wouldn't.

Starting world religion at Uni in Sept, then a PGCE, just want to teach kids that there is so much more we can achieve from a multicultural world, that people can understand and get along together fine.

It seems to me obvious that the more you know about other cultures the less scary they are (esp. for kids), but keep getting told I am naive. But never mind, at least I am TRYING to do something definite and forward sighted!

edam · 26/07/2005 22:33

I like your petition - but doesn't it need an aim? What are you/we asking the Beeb to do, exactly? Need to come up with an answer to this one before it's taken seriously - it doesn't have to be a big 'hey, we've just discovered the secret of life, the universe and everything' answer, just an aim, objective or action point... although helpfully I'm clean out of ideas.

If we do come up with something, would be worth sending it to NUJ/Women in Journalism/Society of Editors/Newspaper Society/PPA/Media Guardian etc. etc. etc.

Papillon · 27/07/2005 06:27

I do agree with Edam MT, felt that last night but got bogged down with trying to be secretarial!! Major flaw I think because then I lose track of what is niggling in the back of my mind.

Anyhow, I feel that is what you were trying to achieve earlier - an alternative label for Islamic terrorism. Although I felt the main thrust of the draft was calling for the truth to be reported with regards to Islam - more investigative journalism. I hesitate to post because the content and images are of orphan children and terribly upsetting, but unfortunatley it is an example of how some journalist do seek the truth which is then dismissed by corporate media.

Here

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monkeytrousers · 27/07/2005 08:14

Gonna have a think today but going out so can't post. Talk soon though!

monkeytrousers · 27/07/2005 10:51

Just a quick thoughts..

Can I ask all the NM'ers who work in the media to help us out here? What I'm worried about is that we will come across as too reactionary and naive and hence very easy to dismiss.

I'll paste a 2nd draft below. I don't think you're going to like it Paps, or you either PD. I haven't added any of your suggestions as I wanted to air my concerns about the direction we take this in first.

I want this to make a difference, however small. The things you both mention are not unknown to many people, and many others much more capable than us have said them before but it hasn't made a difference. I'd like us to take a step back from being so provocative. This is hopefully the beginning of a dialogue - we don't need to lay all our cards on the table at first do we.

Also, even though some informantion is reletivly easy to come by we aren't in possetion of the full facts. If we were, our plea to the media to change to current approach to enable us to make the right decisions would be invalid from the very start.

I doubt very much that event he media knows the whole story, but they are our only conduit to getting close to it and we can't afford to antagionise them, IMHO anyway. Or even politicians themselves. They strike me as a very sophisticated interface, but there's likely to be a lot more processing going on behind them too.

My original aims with this were to make a simple gesture of solidarity with our belegured Muslim communities. I am no apoligist for the way Isalm is practised in certain countries, as I am a feminist and have issues about the reality of womens lives in such countries myself. But that is a seperate issue. I try to challenge racism and discrimination where ever I find it and regardless of whos name it is perpetrated. And like I have said before the most blatent act of racism I have seen recently is when George W Bush tells people that the sacrifices we make in the 'war against terror' are worth in in the 'fight for freedom' knowing full well that the people who have paid most dearly with the lives of their loved ones are the Iraqi's who have had no choice in the matter.

I've taken out the gibe against the media re Niger for this reason. Plus, they have been reporting on the situation there since November and before the crisis reached it's current state. That doesn't let the politicians in Gleneagles off though.

Anyway, here's the 2nd draft. And bare inmind I'm trying to open a dialogue not close it. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

'We the undersigned make a symbolic gesture of soldarity with the Muslim communities of the UK, who may feel confused and belegured both by current events and their portrayal in in the media. We support you in your fight against the fundamentalist interpretation of your religion by terrorism.

We ask the media, and specifically, as a cornerstone of British identity, the BBC, to make a bold and public gesture with us. We are in no position to dictate to you what this symbol may be but some have suggested a ribbon either worn by newsreaders or imbedded onscreen. In a war that is fought with words as much as it is with military hardware, we ask you to challenge the current approach, as it only obfuscates and leaves us more ignorant of issues that affect us directly. We ask you to divise some tangible symbol of solidarity in the hope that this will help to unite all peoples in the face of terrorism and not follow the terriorsts own script when it comes to the corruption of both Islam and democracy.

In this spirit we make a stand for the people of Iraq, mothers and fathers of beloved children just like us, except they live daily in fear and in grief for those killed in our name and for our freedoms. To reiterate to them that many of us used those freedoms to march for the cause of peace, but that our voices were not heard. So the heavy price you have paid in the lives of your loved ones would seem to have been in vain.

We make a stand for the starving of Niger, whose current abject fate was known by those in power as they debated world poverty in Gleneagles.
We make a stand for all victims of terrorism and despotism.

Finally we make a stand for the millions more unknown, and ask that our leaders and institutions to help enable us to make the right choices. But to do that we need to know the whole story.'

peacedove · 27/07/2005 14:40

hi MT

good thinking again. I think the 2nd draft is right, but you will have to run a spell check.

PeachyClair · 27/07/2005 15:19

The only sp I can spot is beleagured, and it's a draft so I suspect I'm being OT as per usual! Sorry!

monkeytrousers · 27/07/2005 17:04

.

Papillon · 27/07/2005 17:16

can you feel me lurking MT Just got home and just taking a breather before launching thread wise into things, I am popped - big day outdoors in the sunshine. No worries about the draft... looks good. Thanks for taking the time to explain your rationale behind it all... makes sense and as I said I can see where you are going with it and am behind you 100% Like the ribbon on the TV screen or in the newspaper perhaps.

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monkeytrousers · 27/07/2005 19:41

3rd draft

Papillon · 28/07/2005 07:49

\link{http://www.makemyvotecount.org.uk/blog/archives/2005/05/successful_vigi.html \If you would like to the see seats in parliament for the Liberal Democrats, the Green party or greater representation then this link could be of interest to you.}

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Papillon · 28/07/2005 07:50

If you would like to the see seats in parliament for the Liberal Democrats, the Green party or greater representation then this link could be of interest to you.

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monkeytrousers · 28/07/2005 07:55

will have a peruse today

monkeytrousers · 28/07/2005 09:14

Did anyone see Rambo 3 on last night? rambo going into Afganistahn and helpng the Taliban defeat the Ruskies? OMFG!

Also went to see War of the Worlds yesterday too and there are so many references to what's happened over the last few years, 9/11, 'shock and awe' - Spielberg is such a master of film and a great humanitarian too.

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