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I want to know what you think feminism is?

29 replies

OrmIrian · 19/12/2009 18:57

I always thought that feminism was the fight to give men and women equal chances in life. To permit women to have all the opportunities to do the things that men take for granted. And the right to be safe from male violence and abuse.

It tries to give women equal rights with men. Good. But are there not responsiblities that come with the rights? What is a woman's responsibility. Do we have a responsiblity to confond expectations? To accept the responsiblity of being the main breadwinner sometimes, to sacrifice being at home with the children if it suits the family dynamic, to be the one that goes out in the world and be the active one? To be prepared to change the world for women in little ways, by, for example, walking home alone at night, because each woman who is too scared narrows the world slightly for other women.

And what about men? It's easy to see how they can take responsibility - by treating women with the same respect they grant to other men - but what rights does feminism grant them? The freedom not to be the one who has to take financial responsibility, the one who isn't seen as a freak by staying at home with the children if that suits the family dynamic, by being granted equal respect as a parent with the mother of the children.

How do you see it.

Please. Don't post if all you can say it that feminism is a crock of man-hating shit, because I will be obliged to ignore you.

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sarah293 · 19/12/2009 19:05

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ilovemydogandmrobama · 19/12/2009 19:07

This is purely a personal perspective, but my grandmother and mother were always protesting. My grandmother was very active re: nestle and their policy in Africa. She was opposed to it, and campaigned hard against it. She felt that this was feminism -- allowing a woman to be a woman without hinderance.

My mother marched during Roe v Wade for the right to (legal) abortion.

At the moment, I am appalled by the 'jokes' doing the rounds depicting Tiger wood's wife as a lunatic. For those out of the loop, it's a cartoon of her chasing him with a golf club, which is supposed to be funny. I think it's misogynistic, as it makes it appear that she's a lunatic.

Sorry for rant

scaredoflove · 19/12/2009 19:10

All of the above

I think feminism is wanting the same rights that men have enjoyed, from equal pay to the freedom to walk anywhere. I also believe feminism should give respect to men and women alike

I don't understand when women state 'I am a feminist so' on here in response to a post. Surely, we are all feminists by default? I don't think any woman out there thinks she should be paid less or have less rights as she is a woman, so why feel the need to state the fact?

ElenorRigby · 19/12/2009 19:12

IMO it is equality of opportunity

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:14

I know it's about equality and not necessarily about choice. I'd consider myself a feminist now after quite a few years of being nothing of the sort. I'm still pro-life, though, which I don't think is mutually exclusive.

BitOfFunderthemistletoe · 19/12/2009 19:16

Awright Kay- haven't seen you in ages!

I think that it is wot you said, Orm.

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:22
burstingtotalkaboutit · 19/12/2009 19:23

I think the notion of 'equality' troubles me in this context. For me feminism is the liberation of both men and women from proscribed roles assigned by patriarchal society.

and I think that celebration of difference is an important component of that. So rather than the main aim being that women can go out and be the main breadwinners in a male defined work world, I would see it as freedom for either gender to decide to take on a career or caregiving role at different stages of their lives. so giving proper value to caregiving in society is of huge importance.

put it this way, rather than allowing mrs thatcher to acheive what she did (a huge achievement regardless of your political affiliation from the pov of a woman being a world leader) feminism will have really got somewhere if there can be a woman (or man for that matter) that can be a world leader without playing a male defined game: prioritising the needs of the most vulnerable in society for eg. breastfeeding in meetings and being photographed doing so without approbation (or morbid fascination) for eg. I'm with germaine greer in terms of much preferring the term 'womens liberation' which strives to liberate all people not just women.

i've expressed it clumsily but hope that you get the gist.

burstingtotalkaboutit · 19/12/2009 19:25

clearly if it was a bloke he probably wouldn't be breastfeeding. in fact he definitely wouldn't be.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 19/12/2009 19:28

Fair point re: feminism and being pro life, which I am guessing means opposed to abortion?

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:30

ilovemydogandmrobama, yup, just using the most common label.

ElenorRigby · 19/12/2009 19:35

"Please. Don't post if all you can say it that feminism is a crock of man-hating shit, because I will be obliged to ignore you."
I am feminist, have been for 20 odd years, but also I am not a sexist, I have high regard for many men!
Like my dad, my brother, my many male colleagues, the dear sweet guys I met when I had social anxiety disorder.
etc

ilovemydogandmrobama · 19/12/2009 19:40

Didn't mean to offend. Without turning this into a debate about abortion, does pro life mean that everything is equal?

I am approaching this debate from the stance from genuinely not knowing, and am even hesitating to use the term 'embryo' as some deem it life, some don't.

BitOfFunderthemistletoe · 19/12/2009 19:41

I like bursting's way of looking at it too.

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:44

Offence not taken - I know some pro-choice people object to the use of 'pro-life' as a label, that's all

Very briefly, so as not to derail an interesting thread, yes, I believe in absolute right to life, from conception onward.

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:45

yes BoF, 'liberation' is a good way looking at it.

KaySqueeHarker · 19/12/2009 19:46

of looking at it. Honestly, my typing is getting worse.

OrmIrian · 19/12/2009 20:19

" feminism will have really got somewhere if there can be a woman (or man for that matter) that can be a world leader without playing a male defined game"

I agree. Male liberation as much as female liberation. I firmly beleive that the existing system discriminates against men as well as women by prescribing roles to them regardless of whether they fit.

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fluffles · 19/12/2009 20:25

i don't know what feminism is - and i do think about this a lot.

partly i think the reason i don't know is that i am absolutely a woman and proud of that but i have more traditionally 'masculine' traits - i have a logical mind and enjoy mathematics and problem solving and have absolutely no 'intuition' at all.
i also enjoy adrenaline sports and risk and although i am kind and fair i'm not particularly 'nurturing'.
i am in a male-dominated profession.

to me true liberation would be not to have any traits defined as 'masculine' or 'feminine' and to be just a person.

when it comes to childbirth and nursing however, it all gets complicated and i get confused because i become defined as 'female' in a way i am not used to.

jeep · 19/12/2009 20:45

i don't know. i had high hopes with reading cosmopolitan from 1984 but somewhere along the way it went very wrong

Kaloki · 19/12/2009 21:26

"to me true liberation would be not to have any traits defined as 'masculine' or 'feminine' and to be just a person.

when it comes to childbirth and nursing however, it all gets complicated and i get confused because i become defined as 'female' in a way i am not used to."

That's exactly what I feel fluffles.

Basically to me feminism is equal rights for both sexes.

sarah293 · 20/12/2009 10:10

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OrmIrian · 20/12/2009 11:08

Riven - don't you think that if roles weren't so clearly defined between the sexes, that would happen anyway - greater respect for roles seen as traditionally feminine. There is always going to be greater 'respect' for the more traditional roles in a sense because they are the ones generally that earn more money - and money is the greater object of worship than anything else

Totally agree that men must take equal responsibility for contraception.

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sarah293 · 20/12/2009 11:43

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OrmIrian · 20/12/2009 13:18

Which is why I find it hard to totally seperate feminism from socialism at some level. Capitalism shows scant respect for much other than the bottom line.

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