Roll call of Deutsche / in Deutschland mummies !

[Nightynight]

how many are there?

Im english, but in Germany, moving down to München next week.

Frogs I sympathise. I don't want this to become a German-bashing thread - I really like it here in many ways, but there are aspects of the paranoid officialdom that do get me down. We were stopped by a policeman the other day because he thought we'd crossed the road with the kids on the red man (rather than the green man) - we hadn't. Imagine that happening in the UK?! Mind you imagine what the unemployment fig's would be like here if they didn't have all this bureaucracy!

Franke. Aw. I'm not going back for good. I'm flying on to Sydney!! .

I'll go and form an aussie clique instead, so nerr.

NN - yes, all of my German colleagues have been really lovely. And my best friend is German too.

I'm trying not to let evil cow tarnish my views, although the woman at the letting agency accused me of inventing a trip to A&E in an ambulance with DD in order to get out of paying their fee (DD nearly killed by badly fixed mirror falling off wall of crappy apartment), had a go at me for not speaking German, even though their website is in English and they target ex-pats and the landlord is the sort of person who appears in 'landlords from hell' type documentaries.

I am English but living in Paderborn

Not that bothered, tbh. Now it's all EU it's not really worth the hassle. Plus I just know it would open up some fresh bureaucratic hell, probably centering around me having to pay a dustbin tax, or obtain a Wohnungsberechtigungsschein (Kl II), or some other piece of paper that I don't have and don't want. I suppose it might entitle me to get the discount for kinderreiche Familien, but frankly, I have better things to do with my time than argue with German bureaucrats. Which is why I live in England.

PG - I have to say if I'd suffered at the hands of the Makler and your nasty neighbour like you have I'd probably be on the first plane to Sydney. I think your experiences actually earn you honorary life membership of the clique

Hayleylou are you here longterm too or are you off back to the UK soon?

I have been out here for 18 months and will here until early next year then we moce back for good. I am off back to the UK next week for the summer

I'm German but have been living in England for all my adult life (and half my teenage one). All my family are over there so I do go over a fair bit - always find the rudeness quite breathtaking.

Dh (English) would love to move to Germany - I think he's a bit deluded as he doesn't speak the language.

frogs, how did you end up with dual nationality? I keep thinking I need to get British citizenship (I'd like to have the option of working in the civil service, for starters), but come over all faint when confronted with the application forms. On the other hand, my German passport is due to expire next year and the thought of renewing it from here.... oh god, pass the G&T....

frogs - at what secretary woman said.
I've generally had very positive experiences in Germany - first time I went to the Ausländerbehörde as a 20-year-old on year abroad with theoretically great but practically unused German (took me the best part of a month to figure out you say 'ein Konto eröffnen' and not 'öffnen') I was very taken aback at the unnecessary brusqueness and rudeness, but I've got more and more adept and hence relaxed at the dealing-with-bureaucracy thing and I think the more relaxed you are, the politer they are somehow... Gradually gaining practical language competence helps too. My most triumphant moment was talkng to a friend of a friend and telling him I was moving down south to take a job teaching English - he looked nonplussed and said 'why, are you so good at English then?' In fact I reckon he must have been a bit the worse for wear as I definitely do have an accent. I find people here are very anglophile which certainly makes my life easier, but it can sometimes be a bit annoying when relative strangers see me as a free translation or English-practising service! I feel a bit like 'berolina the person' disappears behind 'berolina the English woman'. Does anyone else sometimes feel a bit like that as an expat?

Hi there

PG - I loved the time I spent in Dusseldorf esp the early closing thing at the weekends (once I got my head round it) and did lots of interesting things to fill up all that time on my own. We're off to Brisbane in 3 weeks - can I join your Aussie clique?

And if you think German admin is hard work try convincing the Medical Board of Queensland that UK born and bred dh speaks English as his first language and that's why he doesn't have an IELTS certificate. They have conceded that he can register once we provide legally certified copies (not PDF files) of his 11+ results letter, GCSE certificates and A level certificates...it's been a long 2 weeks....

I have dual nationality because my father is British and my mother German. At birth I had German nationality (as my parents weren't married). My sister had British nationality only at birth, as they were by then. At some point in the early 70s it became possible t for children of mixed parentage (in the sense of German-something else) to apply for dual nationality and retain their German citizenship while holding another passport as well. I think they'd had a problem with international abduction of children with German mothers and non-German dads; they wanted the possibility of such children having rights in the German courts instead of automatically having only their father's nationality.

As far as I'm aware, those are pretty much the only circumstances in which you can have dual nationality without automatically losing your German citizenship. My mother has been here 30-odd years and still has her German passport. She could, of course apply for UK citizenship, but that would mean losing her German nationality, which she doesn't want to do. My German grandfather did the paperwork for us back in the seventies -- he was a lawyer working for the civil service, and even so I understand it was not entirely straightforward.

Actually it doesn't make that much difference these days in England, apart from the right to vote in general elections. You can renew a German passport here without too many probs having said that, mine is out of date, but my mum seems to manage it, and she's not big on forms. I think it can all be done by post. But you can't renew a Personalausweis here AFAIK I think you have to be angemeldet at a German address.

Thanks frogs, I'm still angemeldet at my parents' address so will have to remember to have an Einwohnermeldeamt outing next time I'm there. I could abmelden myself and then do it via the embassy or consulates but involves trips to farway places such as Manchester to sign forms.

I think they've changed the rules regarding dual nationality now, as long as the other nationality you want to acquire is an EU one (but it all seems horrendously complicated nevertheless). The only reasons why I'd like British nationality are

• being able to work in the civil service (and their lovely working hours & flexitime)
• voting in the general election

Other than that I don't really care what sort of passport I've got, as long as it's valid.

HA - You're most welcome to join my new aussie clique. Especially as you're a former dusseldorfer.

I'm in the middle of a aussie bureaucratic nightmare too (work permit). I'm in Germany but my paperwork is in the UK. And the fax machine at work closes at 2pm (don't ask).

On the dual nationality question, you can apply for British nationality if you satisfy the rules, and they don't ask you to renounce your second nationality (and neither will they shop you to the Germans). So why not just apply? Unless your German passport application asks if you have acquired any other nationality, I don't see the problem.