The gypsies are here again!

[Janh]

Every May they pass through here on their way to Appleby Fair in Cumbria - there are rows of Romany caravans lined up in a dead-end lane and shaggy coloured ponies tethered on the verges. God knows where they all originate or how long it takes them to do the journey, but DH used to drive that way to work and one year he passed the same caravan every day for 3 days over a stretch of about 30 miles. They are fascinating.

(The fair is on from 2-8 June, main days Sat 4 - Mon 6, if anyone's interested in going.)

anyone read thinner by stephen king.... gypsy curse. baaaaaaaad curse.....

We used to have the traditional romany gypsys on our local common. They were great - they used to let us look round their caravans sometimes, and they helped my friend learn to ride her troublesome pony.
But they don't come anymore. We get the 4-wheel drive, 8-berth caravan type who steal whatever they can get their hands on and leave the place with a quadruple figure cleaning bill.
We have a picnic area a few miles away (well, a picnic site by day but a dogging hotspot by night, but that's another story). The modern gypsies move in there every spring, smash up the toilets and terrorise anyone who comes near them. They sell dodgy furniture door to door and offer to take away old sofas etc. When they leave the picnic site is always full of wrecked old sofas and mountains of rubbish.

I remember tinkers and gypsies a bit differnetly here is a link about tinkers tinkers

that was interesting lemonice.

the difference between romani gypsies and tinkers is simple - they are 2 separate races of people.
romani gypsies originated in india or egypt (there's some debate on this), they have their own language, customs and traditions and are covered by the race relations act.
Tinkers are a very small minority group in Ireland, the name comes from their traditional occupations as tinsmiths and metalworkers.
romani dont tend to cause trouble, more tinkers do, romani are fastidiously clean, tinkers not so, long history of clairvoyance in romani blood, tinkers??
you would never know a field where true romani had been.
you would see piles of rubbish and human/animal waste and general scruffiness after a lot of tinkers (not everyone obviously)
a lot of british Roma are now living in houses but have retained their culture and heritage.
most irish tinkers still travel around and are responsible for the reports you hear everyday!

it does make me mad though, when people lump both races together under 'traveller' when they are so fundamentally different.

Interesting link, Lemonice. I recognise some of the names in your link from when we lived in Perth. Sadly, they crop up time and again in connection with drugs.

When we lived in Thurso, in the far north of Scotland there were plenty of tinker families around, though by now settled in houses. Until as late as the 1930's some of them still lived in local sea caves. Their traditional way of life had been eroded and drink and other social difficulties were a huge problem. Yet when they spotted you with a new baby in the pram, they'd always give a gift of a silver coin to the bairn and wish you luck.

If you want to read about the traditional tinker's life The Yellow On The Broom is a wonderful book.

There used to be some places modern gypsies would go in Edinburgh, but the council sold off the land to developers. Property is just too valuable here. They tried to complain, but the council can't even house all its homeless, much less folks just passing through.

It's ridiculous that they can't even house all the homeless, Expat. My ds1 used to work in the Scottish Exec and they were given so much money to tackle the problem that they could have bought each and everyone of the homeless at that time a small flat! Instead, it's been squandered on pointless schemes and initiatives, while the homeless are still on our streets. Ds was very angry about the waste.

there isa settled romany living just a few doors from me, she is elderly her houseis full of ornaments and she loves lacey things, she has stone garden ornaments in the shape of traditional gypsy caravans and horses, obviously to keep a reminder of her roots,you can tell the children of the settled gypsies round here as they are usually dressed in very fancy(frilly for girls) clothes and lots of jewellry.

Edinburgh Council sold off a quarter of a million properties under the right to buy scheme. They replaced only 40,000. Wonder where the money went?

The Exec will soon make it illegal to house homeless families in B&Bs. So the council is now paying private landlords £500/month to house its homeless. Meanwhile, they're selling off their playing fields left and right to private developers for millions. And raising our taxes 4%/year.

They are going to turn over ownership of their existing stock to a housing association in order for the Exec to write off their £300m of debt - they're paying interest on loans for homes that don't even exist anymore!

But they had a half million pounds to squander trying to convince the population they needed a congestion charge in addition to road tax and high council tax.

So the council is now paying private landlords £500/month to house its homeless.

That's probably cheaper than payiung for B&B in some cases- I don't suppose the council pays then B&B owners peanuts......

the b&b owners are paid a contracted amount in return for knowing their establishment will not have vacancies. but then they get in trouble with those who have to live near them (the b&b's) for 'anti-social' behaviour.

they've got over 100,000 families considered homeless on their books.

they've got some initiative on the cards to build some more housing, but that's years - and many millions of pounds - down the line.

"Tinkers are a very small minority group in Ireland, the name comes from their traditional occupations as tinsmiths and metalworkers.
romani dont tend to cause trouble, more tinkers do, romani are fastidiously clean, tinkers not so, long history of clairvoyance in romani blood, tinkers??
you would never know a field where true romani had been.
you would see piles of rubbish and human/animal waste and general scruffiness after a lot of tinkers (not everyone obviously)
a lot of british Roma are now living in houses but have retained their culture and heritage.
most irish tinkers still travel around and are responsible for the reports you hear everyday! "

sorry if post offended tinker, but i speak from my own personal experience - which is all any of us do when debating or sharing our pov. I have researched 'roma v tinker culture' extensively and found it fascinating - i have been planning to write about it, but have not yet had the time to get organised. have also found large amount of contact with travelling what are called 'tinkers' to be as outlined.
and yes, sorry, but most mess if left is left by groups known as 'tinkers', modern day irish/descended travellers. traditional roma culture is, according to my research, much more harmonious with natural surroundings.
have witnessed personally much mess, incl human/animal waste from such sites. - did say not everybody.
and yes, according to my research, a lot of anglo-roma are now 'settled', so the newspaper reports of 'gypsies' are indeed mostly referring to 'tinkers'

It was the taking of my name I was mock shocking at...not getting into a debate about this.

Message withdrawn

Message withdrawn

realise you taking the mick G, but actually i have read a lot of his stuff about the origins of the Romani people - v good stuff, he's the man to read on this topic!!

case study by Sinéad ní Shuinéar is also v. good.

Message withdrawn

ah hello! i grew up with tales of my maternal grandfather coming from romani stock and have always had itchy feet, feel wanderlust somehow! love open air, wondered if hereditary?

then started to read a lot about romani history, facinating for me! mother claims ggmother was clairvoyant and that it still runs in family - ability to 'see' - like mum claims to see people in advance, like unexpected visitor getting off bus then they actually get off next bus etc etc.

really wanted to write about it all.

sorry going off a bit arent i?! will stop now!!

My great grandmother was a romany, from Moorish origin, via Spain to England. there were no gypsies in England before the Middle Ages, apparantly.

I think the 'criminalised' status is v important. I can remember gypsies coming round to sharpen knives, repair things, and take on seasonal farm work. There was plenty of speculation about curses / good luck etc, but no complaints about crime. Now, there is nowhere for them to go (with any dignity).

Appleby Fair in the Guardian today.