If you had your say...................

[Tigger2]

Ok here we go, if you were able to have a say in the way that we Farmers Farm, what would be your suggestions, complaints, compliments, and other ideas that I could take to an Scottish National Farmers Union meeting?

Go for it we REALLY want to know what the public think.

Not sure how much this is used in the UK- know its big in the States, but no prophylactic antibiotcs (to improve yield) into animals please.

No feeding dead animals to other animals in their feed.

That's my main concerns.

Also bring back hedges and increase biodiversity.

And soils need to be taken care of. i have read reports wch suggest that the use of Nitrogen and phosphorus loaded fertilisers has reduced many trace elements and now our foods contain less minerals that they used to. So check out soils (not really a farmers job as such I know).

But then this is why I buy organic as much as possible.

And just why do organic chickens cost so much (when compared to organic lamb etc). Is it because broiler chickens are ludisrously cheap becuase they are raised in such bad conditions? (That's a real question- genuinely asking).

definitely agree with the organic side of things - I will only buy organic meat it is hideously expensive but I just can't stand the thought of the rubbish that they pump into it. I'd rather eat organic or no meat at all.

local food provided locally (farmers markets good but need it in shops too)

organic and good husbandry

countryside stewardship

open up countryside, unblock footpaths, get involved in tourism (holiday cottages on farms, etc.)

take on supermarkets, use farmers markets, internet selling, farm shops to sell direct.

work together to promote regional produce, form co-operatives

stop killing badgers, birds of prey, etc.

Just what you'd expect really. I don't think you'll get anyone on Mumsnet begging you to tear up hedges and pump animals full of antibiotics

Respect the rights of the animals to a decent quality of life and a painless death.

All the below, and

1. stopping hormone injections to improve milk yields.

2. Reducing chemical pesticide use, and increasing the use of natural predators where essential.

I'll come back to this later with "and another thing", I suspect!

Pretty much agree with the comments so far. I know from previous posts Tigger that you are seriously concerned with the welfare of your animals.

I buy my meat from Sheepdrove Organic farm which is local to me, my mum gets stuff too and her friends reckon they can taste the difference compared to supermarket chicken etc (it does taste very different!)
However, (I think) they are an unusual outfit as they are owned by Peter Kindersley (of DK books) so not sure if they are profitable or just 'nice to have'

Sorry this is turning into an essay, I buy less quantity (eg no huge bags of frozen chicken) but better quality meat these days so my overall £ stays the same. I've gone back to student stuff like doing roast chicken followed by risotto (Nigel Slater's is awesome !) then stock & soup from the remainder so the £13 chicken is doing 4 days for 2 of us but still has taste.

I'm much happier having less (to cut costs) but better quality; mum cooked some fillet steak last week, I like rare steak but most supermarket steak is like boots, this was Aberdeen Angus and was fab.

Tigger I am inrigued at your question because surely we (as representatives of the general public) know bu**er all about the realities of farming so our contributions would not be all that helpful/informed?

Can you pester the supermarkets so that rather than having the same stuff everywhere they make a commitment to some local produce - and label it as that - in all the stores? If they can manage seperate sections/labelling for organic I'm sure they should be able to do the same for local produce.

I'm a big fan of the farmer's markets (and we're lucky enough to have one within easy reach of us 4 Saturdays a month) - but I realise that not everyone has that choice.

There's a shop opened up near us recently which takes the farmers market concept to the high street - the same restriction on everything being locally produced - and I'll happily shop there rather than the supermarkets, not just because I believe in the concept, but because the quality is fantastic. I'd love to see that kind of thing - a sort of high street farm shop - become more widespread. Is that the kind of thing the NFU could have any influence on?

Agree with previous comments concerning inappropriate diet and use of prophylactic drugs, Tigger and know that you take good care of your animals.
Jimjams - my father (rural Essex then Kent in the 20s and 30s) tells me that chicken was a real treat then - you all had a big suet pud with gravy first to fill you up, and then out would come this tiny, costly roasted bird that was meant to feed six with cold leftovers for Monday tea. So I guess broilers have turned chicken into a cheap product. We only have organic chicken as a treat now ourselves, but skip the suet pudding.
I think the other thing to take to your meeting, Tigger, is how much the British public would support the farmers in taking on the wholesalers and the supermarkets. We like shopping at Waitrose because so much of their produce is British and moreover from farms local to London - named ones in many cases. We try and buy organic where possible but more important to me is that roads are not clogged up with artics bussing potatoes the length and breadth of the country. And don't get me started on mangetout being flown half way around the world...
We are also jolly fed up of hearing how farmers are being squeezed on the dairy and meat front regarding wholesale prices - I think it's a disgrace you are treated this way.

From what everyone has written here it seems as though we all have the knowledge to maintain the healthy/compassionate choices but so many people are strapped for cash and perhaps see a 'good deal' on meat and go for it. So perhaps more on education or much clearer labelling? ( have you read 'fast food nation'? that'll put you off industrially grown meat for sure!

There was a special section in today's Guardian on food which covered many of the concerns mentioned here. It's the first of a 3 part series and was interesting (but in parts, scary reading).

Tigger, I doubt I'm alone in wondering how & why there are such extremes in farming in Britain. There seem to be so many farmers struggling to keep going and taking a loss every time they sell a pig but a few favoured ones seem to be laughing all the way to the bank (I'm in rural S England). Is it down to CAP, and subsidies or purely supermarket manipulation ? I'm genuinely interested and not trying to spark a row. I'm not trying to deflect the original topic but I suspect if more of us understood some of the issues farmers face we might have more ideas to suggest.

Oh and another vote for farmers markets, our local one is great but only happens once a month..

I want food that is safe for every human being
NOT
what is deemed safe as lets face it we dont know the full knock on effect of all these chemicals/ genetically modified substances.

It would be good to promote an alternative to organic. I've read a little about IP/integrated farming/sustainability-- basically the way you do it from what I gather. It seems more viable than organic but better for the environment and people than "factory farming".

Also, in order to promote the institution of local butcher, provide training for young good looking guys and then dress them in a hat, boots and butcher's apron only to sell the meat.

The US and Swiss Mothers' Day is tomorrow. And it's my birthday, too. My husband bought me Bombay Sapphire Gin, which he gave me a day early. And he bought me steaks. But how we miss our lovely Scottish beef. Mmmmm.... meat.

Oh and how about mobile abbatoirs which would cut down on the stress and fear of animals being transported?

Twink, bigger seems to be the only way to go, which might explain the disparity in incomes you mention. My dh has just come out of milking, because the price has fallen so low that it barely covers costs. He was milking about 80 cows. If he expanded to 150+, as some in this area have done, he might be able to ride out the storm, but he doesn't want to so he's giving up. Sheep farming in this area has to be very big to pay anything ATM. I guess there are countrywide variations. A few years ago when farming wasn't doing too badly, many (us included) rode around in BMWs, etc. I suppose you may still see a bit of the residue from those days lingering from those who put some money aside.

Droile, what is your method of farming now??, we've got beef and sheep. For many their way of farming is to take the animals from born to prime and this is the way it has always been done, but it is not always the best way. We have changed our methods over the past couple of years as the way we were doing it is not viable any longer. There are moves afoot to bring in "Decoupling" which means that your stock numbers and subsidy claims are taken voer certain years and then divided up and you will then get a single payment instead of having to claim SCPC/BSPS/SPS/SAPS, you will receive one payment instead of having to claim the above.

To make "all" farms Organic is not viable, because, to become Organic stock numbers have to be reduced by nearly half, which means that we would become even more reliant on importing food from other countries, where tracability is NOT up to the standards of Britain, even then I do wonder! We were speaking to a Pharmacutical man yesterday who sells Dosing Stuffs to farmers and he was saying that when Dosing Stuffs in GB go out of date they are re-packaged and sent abroad for use there, as GB has very tight sell by dates on dosing stuffs, laughable eh?

There are also many farmers who become Organic mainly for the payments they receive from various bodies, this is totally wrong as when they decide they have had enough of being Organic they can become conventional farmers the next day! My main problem with farming is mass housing of pigs and battery chickens and housed hens, many fat cattle and lambs are now kept outside as more farmers are fattening their cattle during the summer months. Also, many cattle are housed inside because of their breeding, i.e Limousin, Blondes (cattle kind), Holsteins, even some Charollais are very fine skinned and cannot stand the winter outside, only the native breeds Belties, Galloways, Angus, Hereford and some Simmentals can withstand the harsh weather.

Tigger2, he has wound down and diversified completely. Sold all the sheep a couple of years ago, sold all the milk cows this year. He now has a few beefers, which he hopes to get rid of in the autumn, and some heifers, ditto. So our method of 'farming' is now no animals, let off the land to other farmers and convert the buildings into holiday accommodation. He has had his fill! (and has another business)