Do Muffins Fulfill? A question for SAHMs-whose-children-are-out-of-the-home

[morningpaper]

Dear SAHMs-whose-children-are-out-of-the-home; (including nusery education - I have some friends whose 2-3 yos are now starting nursery from 9-3):

I would be very interested to know what you do during your time at home and how that leads to you living a life that you feel is fulfilling.

(Words kindly provided by Soapbox! )

This is quite a serious question, which I don't think has been answered. I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on this, as this is an option that lots of you have chosen, which is surprising to me in the light of the recent thread about how unfulfilling many people found staying at home.

(Suggestions for re-wording of the question will be given due consideration and I reserve the right to apologise at a later time if I find I have worded this offensively.)

(If you think this is none of my business to ask, then please move back to the cheese thread, rather than posting "It's none of your business!" which is obviously the case, but I am still genuinely curious.)

[emily05]

daddy cool, you really are cool! I think you are great!

[dottee]

Not read all the thread but I'm a SAHM with 11 and 13 year old.

I have to be because dd aged 13 has SN therefore I need to be available to visit hospitals, see physio.etc. with her.

Otherwise cleaning etc. for a home of 4/5 people seems to be never ending BUT:

-I am treasurer of carer group attached to dd's school and help run the group
-I am a parent/governor at the school
-I am on the local partnership youth sub committee lobbying for better facilities for ds's age group
-I am on the steering committee for group that runs leisure activities for sn kids in our town

Of course there's always the dog walking, mnetting, household paperwork etc. to do.

[morningpaper]

Daddycool wrote: "lets face it, working in an office etc simply sucks. it just does. it's pointless, it's a waste of life and loads of people out there actually fool themselves into thinking they actually like it."

I'm sorry you feel this way about your work but it isn't the way I feel about it. I love working and hope to continue until I drop dead. DH also loves his work - he is in the public eye and feels that his work achieves a lot to help people, which he is proud of.

Let's not start using phrases like "it's a waste of life" or we will have the muffins flying again ...

[Potty1]

That did have a lot to do with our choices - dh loves his work - I hated mine and the offer of voluntary redundancy was like manna from heaven

[puddle]

daddycool depends what you do. I don't think my job is pointless at all - I work in the public sector. I think there is as much generalising about what constitutes work here as there is about what a SAHM does.

One of the problems, it seems to me is that if you get off the ladder to have children and then stay at home for the next few years until your children are at school, then your options for work shrink drastically. It's not really suprising that some women are choosing the relative autonomy of being at home to a job that is probably at a lower level and lower pay than the job they left when they went on maternity leave.

[jane313]

The assumption here is though that eveyone is happy and fulfilled in their jobs which they love. (I didn't read the previous thread) I know so few people like that and I believe they are very lucky or in fact quite easily pleased (if I know their jobs and have found them boring myself). I have wokred in a lot of fields; media, education and the theatre and they all had their moments of tedium and I was definitely not fulfilled in them. And they weren't even some of the more repetitous jobs I've done like admin, waitressing cleaning.

To be honest the majority of people just work very hard at making money for other which doesn't seem like a hugely fulfilling purpose for your short time on earth. Obviously some poepl need the status and the adult company.

[DaddyCool]

yes but... are you entirely sure you wouldn't rather be:

reading a book in your conservatory
farting about in coffee shops
eating your lunch on your lounger in the back garden.

c'mon! do you really like your jobs that much?

i could start an argument here but i guess i must (reluctantly) accept that everyone is different.

i've been trying to convince dw to emigrate to oz where we could spend the rest of our lives faffing about on deserted local beaches and wearing £2 flip flops (it's possible, i've done the numbers )

[JoolsToo]

let's not forget there are millions of people in boring, mind numbing jobs. Going into the workplace doesn't necessarily mean you are going to be intellectually stimulated.

[tsktsk]

Sorry but hardly any of you do anything to help other people!..
"I may help out at school"

[Cam]

But there's the rub morningpaper, lots of us feel that working in an office sucks. I don't know how to label myself so I won't but here are some of the things I do:
Look after dd, inc transport to her various interests extra-curricular ballet, Brownies, swimming training
Do all the admin for my holiday apartment, inc. advertising, emails, telephone, accounts and paperwork
Clean, paint, decorate and furnish my holiday apartment
Sit on the Friends Committee for dd's school, inc lots of time-consuming fundraising work (one of which is co-ordinating coffee mornings )
Go to the gym

So I do contribute financially to the family coffers but I feel like a Sahm because I organise my own time and am not employed

[DaddyCool]

absolutley jools. i work around people who do basically the same type of job as myself and they actually fool themselves that they enjoy it! its crap! it's office based corporate rubbish. it's meaningless and is an unfortunate waste of a life that could be spent doing better things (like goofing off )

[snafu]

Think that's a very interesting point, puddle, about the 'relative autonomy' of being an SAHM. For lots of women, SAHM-dom means more control over their lives, more freedom, more stimulation, not less.

[GeorginaA]

tsktsk: I don't feel I have to justify this, but yes I do stuff for people on a smaller scale. Not everyone is cut out or interested in major charity work or committee work. Why should we? Not everyone is the same and of course I appreciate those who do. Just because I'm not doing voluntary work doesn't mean I don't help people out on an individual basis from time to time or am a total selfish person. And how is that any different from paid work where I wouldn't have time to do voluntary work?

I'm happy with my choices. I really hate the attitude that mothers should feel guilty for something. If they're at work, they should be at home with their children. If they're at home, they should be contributing to society or to the family income. If you enjoy routine and the simple things in life then you should be doing something more intellectually stimulating. If you're doing something intellectually stimulating then you're obviously neglecting your household/the local community/the environment/your children.

FFS, we can't do right for doing wrong! What happened to live and let live people?! I'm pleased with my choices and am fairly certain I won't have many regrets at the end of my life. Why isn't that enough? What pound of flesh do you actually want?

[DaddyCool]

here here Georgina. well said

[morningpaper]

Snafu: Giving up paid work usually means giving up some financial/future autonomy. It's great while your partner is providing for you but not so great if he leaves you when you are 55 and you've been at home with the kids all your life. (For EXACTLY this reason Dh and I now support OUR mothers.)

Daddycool: No I would not rather be reading in the conservatory/fart about in coffee shops/lounge around in the garden although I'm pleased that your wife has such a nice life?!?! Why don't you change your job though? Or get her to work while you retrain? That I do NOT understand.

[soapbox]

Daddycool - I too am an accountant and I really do like it - most of the time!

I find what I do very intellectually demanding and have managed to find a little niche where I am able to pick and choose what I do. So I only do what I fancy doing and make sure I don't take so much on that I have no time for MN during the working day

[Gobbledigook]

AND for HappyDaddy!

I tell you what, I'd continue freelancing answering only to myself but no way will I ever go back to arriving at work when someone else wants me to, dressing in a fashion that someone else wants me to, staying there until I am allowed to leave, attending umpteen mind-numbing meetings where ridiculous and cliched management phrases are bandied about, having to answer to vacuous corporate manager, attending client 'social' events and making painful small talk....GOD no.

[morningpaper]

Georgina: I don't understand why discussing it makes you feel so angry.

I've already been told I'm wasting my life by not reading in the conservatory, but see it's all water off a duck's back...

[Gobbledigook]

Bugger, I meant Daddycool!

[jane313]

as someone said once there are not many people on their deathbed who wished they had spent more time in the office.

[JoolsToo]

daddycool - I like the cut of your jib

[Flum]

or done more housework.

[SoupDragon]

I don't help out in school, nor do I intend to. I would be cr*p at it so it would be pointless. I do other stuff which I really can;t be ar$ed to list.

TskTsk, stop stirring.

[DaddyCool]

morningpaper - i'll hate any job i do, whether i retrain or not. dw also hates working.

i realised this very early in life and chose a career that simply paid out a maximum amount of cash. Sad? yes. Realistic? yes.

i'm not sending my dw back to work. i want to provide and let her live a life she enjoys.

[morningpaper]

DC: Now THAT attitude I find depressing. How will you feel if you get some terminal disease in 10 years time, knowing you hated every minute of your hard-working life? Isn't that a waste?