Everyones thoughts on the impending General Election

[Tigger]

With the Election date now set for 7th June, what are peoples comments so far on all the parties and their recent Manifesto Pledges.

Also what about the guy who hit John Prescott and then John Prescott hit him?, made the news a bit more exciting than normal.

Sorry Tigger. I agree with you wholheartedly on the rural front. This government has failed the sector miserably and utterly. As you rightly point out, it is the rich urbanites who have done well under Blair.

Its just that I get frustrated when British people always seem to assume that our continental cousins have everything so much better than us.... economic figures such as unemployment and so on amply demonstrate that Britain doesn't need the Euro as as an economy, it is outstripping most European countries. The state of the rural sector is of course another issue alltogether.

Tigger, which party do you think would do most for the rural economies?? We hear a lot about what each party is going to do for education, health etc, but very little about the rural areas - or is it that I don't listen because it doesn't directly affect me? Without knowing anyone in your position, I would find it difficult to decide which parties policies were actually useful or practical. I'm not sure my vote is going to count this year, as this area is practically a shoo-in for the tories (altho' we did manage to get Bell in last time, but look at his opposition) but I do want to know enough to make an informed choice.
Oh, if anyone is interested, my dad runs a small business and reckons he has NEVER had such a bad time as in the last 4 years (this is after 28 years!).

Croppy, I agree with you about us thinking that our European counterparts are better off than us in some way, how wrong some are. Many farms in France STILL milk the cows in the field by hand and then sell the milk on to consumers!. We are'nt allowed to do that nowadays, another ruling says it will gives us all the shits!. Everything that we do is decided by the European vets, before long we won't even be able to jag any of our animals without a vet doing it, this will incurr the most horrendous welfare problems as some won't bother to get veterinary assistance. Makes my head spin when I sit down and read what we have received in Docmentation over the past year.

Debsb, what political party do I think would help us, a question I really cannot answer properly just now, although my husband is very, very much a Torie!, as a vote for my local MSP I really cannot fault the relationship the SNP has had with all areas of business, schools etc in Scotland, but on the other hand the Scottish Executive has handled the F&M crisis in Scotland very well, run by Ross Finnie and his ministers. I would, like to have a presentation in paper,put in front of me and the rest of the population of Britain from all Parties outlining what the WILL do over the next 4 years, not what they want us to hear. I really don't think the present administration fully realise the devastation that some businesses are going through just now, they need to get of their backsides and have a good look around the rural areas, because if it wasn't for people like me and your dad and many others there will not be any good businesses left. We don't need to employ over 200 people to be a good business, in fact I'm quite sure that many businesses who employ a lot of people will be finding it a struggle right now.

End of my "high horse" stance, but I get so dammed angry that people in the cities etc don't know what is going on the countryside.

Why do people keep voting for the same 2 parties... we all know they don't deliver... why not try somethimg else ?
I am voting lib dem as I like their speech on education and health and I don't mind them hiking my taxes... the other 2 parties say they won't hike taxes and I will get better services... b...s... ! What do the think we are ? completely stupid ?

Pupuce - there are others of us who don't always vote for the same 2 parties! Unfortunately, I think a lot of the time now people vote a party out, rather than another party in. until we get some form of PR I don't think this is likely to change.

Pupuce - I was saying last night whilst watching the news, that I don't object to paying more tax if we can improve public services - they were covering the story about potential NI increases - and my husband said 'well why don't you vote lib dem' The problem is, they only solve part of the problem and also I just don't think they can win - certainly would struggle to win the local seat, Hackney, let alone get into government, so it's still a 'wasted' vote as I think labour need to get a really strong majority and high turn-out to really give them the mandate to make radical changes in the next government - yes i am one of those naive people who think they will be more radical next time!

Pupuce - I was saying last night whilst watching the news, that I don't object to paying more tax if we can improve public services - they were covering the story about potential NI increases - and my husband said 'well why don't you vote lib dem' The problem is, they only solve part of the problem and also I just don't think they can win - certainly would struggle to win the local seat, Hackney, let alone get into government, so it's still a 'wasted' vote as I think labour need to get a really strong majority and high turn-out to really give them the mandate to make radical changes in the next government - yes i am one of those naive people who think they will be more radical next time!

I agree with Debsb! I live in true blue country – my MP is Archie Norman a shadow something for the tories ! So talk about having a wasted vote. I will still vote Lib Dem because :

1. I agree more with them then with the others (also I like the fact that they want a referendum on Europe whether you are pro or con Europe – the Tories don’t even want to consider it and Labour is too shy to have a real stand!)
2. I want to encourage people who do not want to vote Labour/Tories that there are thousands of us who will vote something else… and maybe next time they will feel like they are not wasting their vote

I don’t think I am wasting my vote to be honest and unfortunately if everyone votes like Emmagee (and some of my friends do) we are not out of the woods yet! We will never have more options !

I wonder how many people out there would actually vote Lib Dem if they didn't consider it a wasted vote. I think both the major parties now write their manifesto with a view to getting elected, without any real conviction about what is good for the country. eg Labour have refused to consider taking railtrack back into public ownership, despite the obvious chaos that has followed the private ownership. I believe this is because they think it will be seen as too socialist & therefore alienate people. Therefore, if they decide that most people want tax cuts, they will put this as a primary agenda, regardless of whether they think it will benefit the country.
Perhaps if a larger number of people voted for the manifesto they believed in, rather than deciding for or against tory or labour, the size of the vote may show those in government what the people really care about.

Re Railtrack, the fact that the company is going to have to spend around £4bn per year in capital investment to make up for the complete lack of investment in the network by the government is why they don't want it back under state ownership.

I live in an area that was a Tory stronghold, but who lost to the Lib Dems by 2000 votes when the Tory MP was killed. Therefore all parties are out in force.

Its my personal opinion and don't critise me for it but at gevernment level I can't see much difference between the parties. Irrespective of whoever gets in I will end up paying more tax for less service. Therefore my vote is determined by local performance and basically which party doesn't ignore me when I am pushing my pram in town. The Tories lost my vote the last time when they stopped my husband to discuss issues with him and completely ignored me.
I am fed up with arrogant, male, chauvanistic, political attitudes...conversation is back where it started with John Prescott then.

Tigger, sorry, I have been off for a week but wanted to reply to what you said anyway. I do sympathise that you are being shafted by supermarkets, and that you feel you are being overlooked by the government. I am certainly aware of what is going on amongst my former rural neighbours, but sometimes I think that they are totally unaware of what is going on in the cities! What is the shame in being on WFTC? You quote this as though it is a symptom of how desparately poor farmers are - but I'd say, Welcome to the real world! Many people are on WFTC in the cities too, and they also live in cramped flats and small houses. Most farmers live in houses that the majority of British people can only dream about! I'm not talking about Georgian dream houses here, just detached houses with plenty of garden. Most farmers also benefit from having home grown fruit and veg which town dwellers just don't have the space for. And they don't live on council estates getting woken up at 2 am by joyriders and hooligans feuding and having their cars vandalised! And I don't know a single farmer who drives a D-reg Ford Fiesta - they've all got newer, bigger cars or 4wds!! Don't mean to attack farmers here, and I totally agree that the countryside's in deep s**t at the moment, though I bet my ideas for changing it wouldn't be very popular amongst landowners! but farming is still a very desirable way of life compared with how most people in Britain live today - it's all relative.

Re Europe, after the weekend's mad Keep the Pound electioneering, can only conclude that Hague et al are going for the oldie vote on a wave of nostalgia.

The Lib Dems want to bring in legislation that stops people being discriminated in the work place. eg ethnicity, age, sex, sexual orientation. To discriminate will become a criminal offence. However 38% of people asked by "Yougov" think it is ok to discriminate!

I don't believe some people. I have to say, Labour and Lib Dem keep going on about issues which effect women but the things they talk about eg more time off work, are just as important to men aren't they?

Ah well thoughts of buying the 4wd have just gone out the window!. Big garden, ah yes that'll be the field behind my house that we have just fenced a bit off, dodging the cow shit. WFTC, is not a symptom, but if the government wants to take it off us in one way then he'll keep us in an another. Europe, what is wrong with staying with the pound, you said about Eire, wait until all the building is done etc, and the major companies will bog off somewhere else. I do not want my interest rates controlled by Europe, and even although we have independance in Scotland we are still controlled financially through the Bank of England. Many people don't want to join the Euro, many people want to stay as Britain what is the big rush and thrill of joining Europe?

Why doesn't the present government go to where there are real problems, i.e. inner parts of Glasgow, Edinburgh, "but we don't want to show you that", it might just taint my happy smiley front. The Labour party is needing to sit up and take note that there is more to life than the cities and slagging of Maggie Thatcher, how long can they keep blaming other people for their mistakes.

By the by, we have a V registration 406, full spec, that was bought after we had saved for 5 years to buy it. Many farmers do have the big 4wd, come a bit further north than manchester and they get less and less, many actually ahve them instead of a car, as they have a pickup and car in one.

Tigger, actually my father once pulled a posh 4wd out of the mud with ... a Fiat Fiorino van!! We always had vans and pickups, they are much more practical than estate cars and 4wds.
Agree with you about inner Edinburgh and Glasgow - I worked in one and visited the other when I was a student in Edinburgh ten years ago, found them pretty depressing places, very hard to break out of the poverty trap there.
There's nothing to be scared of in joining the Euro, all this talk about the economy being 180 degrees out of sync is just so much pseudo-scientific bsht! It's better to be part of a large, strong union because then we have access to all the shared resources of that union. Lots of Scots want independence within Europe don't they, but true independence would be a lot scarier. Also, now we are really part of Europe, it'll be harder for the sorts of little closed cartels like the big British supermarkets to get established, because more things are Europe wide. We're already starting to see this with lower car and food prices.
I am really ashamed of the UK's stance on the Euro - standing there on the sidelines saying we'll only join if it's a success! Other countries are building a brave new future and the British can't get beyond harping about the war!
Anyway back to the election - what do you think of Labour's latest effort? I thought it showed a total lack of understanding of the average voter - if Hague WAS Thatcher he'd get masses more votes!

But Sml, our net contribution to Europe has hit as high as £5bn in the past couple of years this is before weaker countries such as Poland, Turkey etc are admitted... Don't understand what you mean by the stuff on the economies being out of sync - seems pretty factual to me. Agree with you wholeheartedly re the Thatcher / Hague thing though, I should imagine he is absolutely delighted!

Hmmmmm, William hague in a dress??, the mind boggles. Thatcher wouldn't be talked down in anything and DID admit her mistakes and she is still a strong advocate of keeping Sterling which I agree with, what many of us object about Europe is the fact that we put so much and get very little in return. For me it would be a nightmare, buying a tonne of feeding at so many Euros, god I'd go potty. The recent Labour poster of William hague and Margaret Thatcher is so childish and immature, and they really haven't done themselves any good at all. At the last election in our area there were Labour Posters all over the place, this year it is nothing but Conservative, a big turnround this time. The SNP also had a good hold in our area, but the SNP chap is going off to be a MSP at Westminster!. Don't think you'll ever convince me about Europe, good job my worse half doesn't get on here he is very much a Torie and very anti Europe, worse than me.

Right. Croppy, I have done a little bit of research on Euro websites. This was necessary as when I last had time to get involved with politics, I was a Eurosceptic believe it or not. Then I saw the light! You probably know most of this stuff already.
The arguments pro and anti the euro are summed up on www.singlecurrency.co.uk. As you would expect, convergence of economic cycles features. However, a BBC article on the subject points out that the UK's cycle is not that much out of line now, eg UK growth this year, 1.7%, Germany 2%, next year 2.7% and just over 2% respectively, suggesting that both economies are growing. This is put down to international shakeups following the Asian economic crisis a few years ago. It also says that Ireland's economy was not in tune with the rest of Europe, however, they still took the risk and joined at the start with the others. The BBC article names this as a factor in Ireland's current exaggerated economic cycle. Doesn't say how long it will take to resolve, or what action is being taken by the EU to help with this.
Anyway, the rest of the arguments pro can be summed up as greater stability, both within Europe and internationally.
The arguments against are the old chestnut that Britain has more trade and a "special relationship" with the US, the Euro might fail, and we would in any case lose control over our economy.
There are also two conflicting economic arguments, which are that by joining the Euro we would have 1. lower interest rates (advantage) and 2. higher taxes (disadvantage).
I still don't find the anti Euro arguments convincing. Re losing control over our economy, I don't personally have any control over it anyway, and frankly, I don't think those who do are better than their European counterparts. Talk of the Germans controlling our economy is just racist nonsense - I'd expect British people to be up there taking a full part in the economic future of Europe anyway.
Re more trade with the US, so what? Think how silly it would look if one of the states of the US insisted on having its own currency because it said it had more trade with, say, China than the rest of the US. The web site mentions that the Euro "may be a disadvantage" when trading outside Europe, but doesn't specify why.
The cultural links with the US are pretty unconvincing - the States has cultural links at least as strong with many other countries eg Spain, Italy, Germany, West Indies, China to name just a few.

Here's an interesting idea though - it is suggested that in a few years, the dollar and the Euro should merge, leading to a stable currency between the US and Europe. This would become so powerful, that it would lead effectively to one world currency ... except for Britain of course, who would still be clinging doggedly to the pound and economic "independence"...

Thanks for an interesting post sml. Actually I don't feel that strongly about Europe. Would say however that taking a one year snapshot of growth rates isn't especially helpful as it the overall 5 year cycle which tends to matter most. Also, a look at the unemployment statistics, tax burden, % of government spending etc highlights the dramatically different structure of the UK's economy. I just have a natural antipathy to another layer of politicians, another layer of bureaucracy and above all, the apalling fraud and waste that an behemoth like the EU entails..... Sorry, but I like my control to be as local and streamlined as possible!

I lived in Brussels for a few years -saw all these Bureaucrats (and tons of money they make).... so that hasn't been in their favour but having said that I agree with Sml... I don't think the UK can stay competitive on its own in the long term.
I work for a very very large multinational and I hear the debates we have internally about why we should or should NOT invest more in Britain... There is a reason why the Motorola, Ford, BMW,.... are leaving... and I am sure (after hearing our discussions in the company) that they won't be the last!

This is my last word on Europe!. Motorola is closing its Britih factory because of the drop in demand for phone handsets in Europe and BMW's problems relate solely to the way Rover was run for so long. Britain continues to atract significantly more inward foreign investment than any other EU member....

Then why are these companies choosing to close their UK offices/plants and not other European locations ? Or why do some choose to invest in other european countries ? I know the company I work for certainly considers UK indecision over Europe as a problem when we look at investments in this country!

Then why are these companies choosing to close their UK offices/plants and not other European locations ? Or why do some choose to invest in other european countries ? I know the company I work for certainly considers UK indecision over Europe as a problem when we look at investments in this country!

These Multi National Companies are closing in Britain because, the costs of wages, export, etc are to high in this country. The cost of living in this country exceeds most other European countries, and these companies are now going elsewhere because it is simply cheaper.