Is McDonald's really the worst thing in the world?

[SoupDragon]

Friendly debate I'm not trying to get at anyone who has decided that their family will never cross the threshold of the golden arches

I'm curious. Is McDonald's really the worst fast foot outlet or does it simply set itself up for bad press by being the biggest and most recognisable?

Are their business ethics worse than any other company out there?

As for Supersize Me - if someone ate at, say, Pizza Express for every single meal for 30 days, what would their health be like at the end of it? Or TGIFridays? Or any other "family friendly" restaurant/food outlet? Have McDonald's been unfairly singled out in this aspect or did they cover other food outlets in the film?

I am an intelligent human being (honest, I am!), I know you can't eat fast food for every meal for a month and remain stick thin and as healthy as a healthy horse but I don't see the harm in eating there once or twice a month provided our chldren are taught that it is simply not possible to eat stuff like that all the time. I certainly don't give in every time DSs ask to go to McDonald's. I can't help thinking that outright banning of something makes them want it even more... but that's just me. We all have differnet ways of parenting

Don't get me wrong, I do understand that they're not a squeaky clean, healthy company but are they really as "spawn of the devil" as they are made out to be and how do they compare to other companies?

donnie - I dfon't think they do styrofoam anymore.
Not that I am defending them.

I once went to a 3 day workshop with an exsenior exec of Mc Donalds UK - Oh my god..... the stuff she told us ! I was gobsmacked - diabolical they are !

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hunker - I'll bet you anythimg my son would hate it... it is too fatty and salty.
And anyway I'd be too angry so DS would definitely not enjoy

LOL oops - well I am sure they are fed up having to justify their choice !

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Anyone remember that advert where the little girl covers her mum's room in talc and the mum takes her to Mcds? Thought that was a bit of an extreme punishment myself.

So do those of you who boycott McDonalds buy their food in supermarkets? I know it's not quite the same as it's harder to avoid supermarket shopping completely (although I know you do sterling work, velcobrott! Read your thread earlier today), but I do see it as a similar side to the coin.

For better for worse these businesses are out for a profit. I'm not sure this makes them "evil", but the choices they make to get that profit can have unintended side effects for the community at large. I can choose whether to help them gain more profit if I think they provide a good product that I want/need or I can choose not to. Supermarkets it's harder to choose because other alternatives are becoming scarcer despite the fact that they don't always sell a better product. McDonalds product is (as well as the food) a "fun" atmosphere where you don't have to stress if your child makes a mess, where there are balloons, a toy and food that will arrive quickly and doesn't break the bank. As a product that is not a bad idea and as long as you're not eating there 24/7... shrug emoticon inserted here. When dh was working away and I was coordinating the house sale on my own, McDs was a lifeline when I needed to get out the house with a toddler at short notice around teatime while an estate agent held viewings at my house. I'm glad it was there while I was stressed, miserable and not at my parenting best. Some viewings we went to visit friends and ate there instead - that was really lovely too. What I think the real issue is - where is the education needed to help encourage people to eat more variety and learn about moderation/how to prepare healthy non-processed foods?

I'm digressing I know. But it's approaching midnight And no, we didn't visit mcdonalds this evening... we had a very nice homemade chilli con carne thanks

I agree that supermarkets aren't blameless. But I can buy fresh veg and fruit and other ingredients and cook food for the dds and know exactly what is in it. I don't get that option in Mcds.

Oops, I've breastfed in McDonalds. Admittedly I did get nasty comments from a family that, quite frankly, looked as if they could have done with eating home-cooked meals now and again, but I have done it.
Sometimes there's not any other option available - McDs are very good at positioning themselves on windswept retail parks where the only other option is a drive away.

McDs do grilled chicken and carrot sticks if you're really that concerned. OK so they're not organic or ethically farmed but not even "proper" restaurants offer that as the norm.

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Agree about the poor treatment of animals and McDs generally appalling business and environmental ethics. But the cynic in me believes that the stuff on offer in Tesco, Asda etc is not much better, and I shop there, more out of necessity than choice.
We don't go to McDs very often as there isn't one locally, but if we're out shopping and the only other option is another fast food outlet then I don't have a problem with popping in to fill up on rubbish until we get home for a "proper" tea.
I must admit that I would be happier some kind entrepeneur would hurry up and open a national chain of child-friendly, healthy food, reasonably priced restaurants, but what's the chance of that happening?

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Baka, I agree with oops - consumers can make a difference. Read this, from The Soil Association's Organic Food and Farming Report 2004:

"Direct sales of organic food topped £100 million in 2003/04. Sales through box schemes, farmers' markets and farm shops have grown faster than any other retail outlet at 16% from £93.3 million to £108 million. Box schemes have experienced a phenomenal growth in sales of over 20%, with some enterprises reporting an annual growth of over 30%"

That suggests to me that some consumers (I know, this is a group or consumers of organic food so maybe more likely to be interested in shopping ethically) do care about who they buy from and want to spend their money with say, Abel & Cole as opposed to Asda/Walmart. And I agree with oops, just because I use a supermarket doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on McDonald's/other companies. I do try to shop ethically as far as possible and use the Rough guide to ethical shopping but I know I fail sometimes.

If no-one cares about how large companies make their money (and maybe the majority of people don't? Probably true) and we don't mind if say, child labour is involved/unions are banned/laws are flouted/the product is crap then we may well arrive somewhere where there is no choice: the supermarkets and crap fast food outlets will be the ONLY choice. I think that would be a bad thing. Badhair, I dream of setting up somewhere like that too, apparently there is a place in London called Leon but it's not aimed at children.

Oh I don't mean to say that because you use a supermarket you have to use McDonalds, lol. Sorry if it came across that way. I was kind of answering the thread title of "Is McDonald's the worst thing in the world" - no. Walmart is the largest food retailer in the world, it can be argued that supermarkets caused this downturn into the mires of cheap poor-quality processed food and with their huge buying power have destroyed many suppliers and are the chief cause of atrocious poverty-stricken conditions for migrant workers in this country let alone any other and cause tons and tons of pollution every year shipping food all over the place instead of locally sourcing it.

Makes McDonalds look like they can qualify for sainthood in comparison

Like I say, I shop ethically where I can (well... no... I shop for quality where I can, tbh. I don't think supermarkets provide good quality for most of their food products, but my choices are limited). I've started using a local butcher, I'm still on the hunt for a decent grocer, I plan to investigate local delis in the next month or so, we've cut right back on processed foods (supermarkets highest margins) mainly because they just don't taste that good anymore now we're getting used to eating fresher food. But at the same time I refuse to shoot myself in the foot if after a month or so of eating healthily I think "sod it. Not cooking. Really fancy a McDonalds/Tesco Chinese Meal for Two/Whatever [delete as appropriate]". Overall, I'm reducing their profits by a tiny amount and our family is eating healthily. I refuse to feel a bad guy just because I wouldn't ban my child from attending a party at McDonalds occasionally, or I buy the occasional ready meal!!

Of course, please bear in mind that this area is still forming new ideas in my head (currently reading Not On The Label open mouthed and wondering if I can ever eat anything again!!) so my opinions aren't necessarily consistent or fully formed!

I agree that a more constructive approach for smaller retailers rather than trying to compete on equal terms with the giants (cheap crappy food and trying to compete on price which they are NEVER going to achieve - they don't have the buying power) then looking at what makes these places popular (family friendly, etc) then looking for a way of doing a high quality, ethical alternative. For example, most of the greengrocers around here have poor quality produce shipped all around the world and still have no flavour. Most of the McDonalds alternatives also sell crap with chips only slower and with less small noisy child friendliness (I really loathe the "children should be seen and not heard" attitude of the UK sometimes, I really do). These markets are already saturated. One of the reasons that box schemes have done so well is that they found a different niche and filled it well.

yes, but the box schemes filled their niche well with fruit and veg, mostly grown locally and mostly without using harmful pesticides. Comparing the business acumen of box schemes with that of McD is a bit off-kilter, if you don't mind me saying so.

Yes, it is hard trying to buy ethically and feed your kids with the 'right' stuff but I think it's completely defeatest to say 'well everyone's corrupt anyway, so why bother?'. Dh and I made a choice not to go to McD 5 years ago after reading an article about their business practices, which was before dd was born. dd has never been to McD, but I'm well aware that she may be invited to parties there in the future and we'll take her but it really will not become a part of our eating habits. She eats out at plenty of restaurants that don't provide 'entertainment' for her; we take our own of we think we need to (crayons paper, etc) but much of the time we don't. I'd rather make the effeort o entertain her myslef by talking to her and playing ganes at the table than giving her a plastic toy as a trade-off for her being 'good' or quiet and having to eat food which I consider to be nutritionally little better than the stuff the toy will be made out of.

Dh and I also have a problem with Tesco's global domination at the moment too and we do try to shop elsewhere but we know they also have us over a barrel as there are 3 of them in our home town with few alternatives for food staples. We have an organic box delivered weekly (so shoot us!) and we supplement this with fruit and veg from the supermarket if we need to but we do try to buy home-grown produce where possible.

Not trying to appear martyrish or smug-sounding - just saying how it is in our house. (Should add that we have read 'the food we give our children', 'not on the label' and 'shopped' all of which have greatly changed our approach to food and shopping.

"yes, but the box schemes filled their niche well with fruit and veg, mostly grown locally and mostly without using harmful pesticides."

Um, didn't I just say that?

Never mind, I give up.

GeorginaA, I agree with a lot of your first para, the supermarkets are responsible for causing a lot of harm imo. Their business strategies are pretty atrocious too.

www: thank you for the rough guide link - will look out for that.

TBH I think that McD isn't the worst place in the world. All fast food places edvertise in excess, but I find that a lot of the kids I know will see KFC and Burger King in the same light - all do kids meals, all do the toys and all do ice-cream if wanted for afterwards.

When I was a kid McD advertised as much as it is now - the only thing that has change IMO is the amount of places you get it and the amount of food on the menu. In all honesty, we were probably allowed McD twice a year - when on day trip to London, the other when Xmas shopping with mum. I didn't start eating McD more frequently until I hit about 15 /16, and that certainly wasn't to do with the advertising or the flipping toys.

My DH and I have discussed McD and how we will treat this when our baby arrives in Oct and is old enough to ask "can we go here?" etc. I don't want our child stuffed full of McD every Saturday afternoon, nor would I like them to be stuffed with any fast food place, including pizza's. But as DH points out, we can go, it doesnt mean that our child has to eat burgers / fries. McD now does a great range of healthy food for kids, so you could choose chicken strips, carrots and water. Plus they do a list of the calorie / salt / fat content in each childrens meal food. They seem to have tekn steps to move away from the unhealthy. Personally I don't see what is so wrong with that.

IMHO, what annoys me more than McD adverts are the adverts you get whenever you get to any sort of holiday, (Xmas, Easter etc) and the you get bombarded with zillions of adverts for Bratz, Peter Pan etc etc. In my experience, kids react far stronger to these adverts to that of Ronald MacDonald jumping around.