Gender stereotyping and toys

[Starling]

My friend has a 4 year old son who will be starting school in September. He is very keen on Barbie and has a Barbie of his own. On a recent shopping trip for trainers, he was smitten with a pair of Barbie trainers. He has also seen a Barbie lunchbow at nursery school and is desperate to have one.
his mum says that he is interested in all things pink and glittery, not just Barbie.
Her dilemma is that, being aware of how older children might react when her son starts school, she did not feel able to buy him the shoes or the lunchbox, but could not explain to him why this was.
Whilst I understand her point (and personally I cannot abide Barbie anyway) I think it's really sad that she had to make this decision. What do others think? And how have other parents dealt with similar situations?

If you go by those stereotypes it means that anyone who doesn't fit them is "unnatural" in some way! I am crap at multi-tasking by the way!

Interesting discussion - sex...gender... are differences biological or cultural.. reminds me of my college days writing endless essays on the subject for gender and anthropology. I never did reach a final conclusion... biology and culture interact from the moment a child is born to create differences - mums and dads interact with boy and girl newborns differently, and as kids grow they see endless images of men and women to inform their identity. At the end of the day, I know it is perfectly possible for women to like and do pretty much anything men can (although peeing standing up gets messy) and men can like and do pretty much anything women can (save give birth, menstuate and breastfeed). The ultimate limitations are biological, but genders have a history that affects us. It matters to me what generations of men have made "being a man" into. It matters because I've either got to continue the tradition or change it - I can't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not into traditional ideas of 'being a man' - limited to earning money and being a tough unemotional sort of chap, but making things different means being procactive (I think when we're either very relaxed or very stressed, we fall back into behaviours learnt when very young - e.g. gender stereotypes). And some trad 'blokey' things I love - e.g. footy. Re: toys - I would relax, don't force anything on a child, let them explore what they want, but always let them know that they are OK as they are, and are capable of pretty much anything they want (and have the ability for) - whether it's being a brain surgeon or a midwife - boy or girl.

As some wise bod once said... "don't worry if your 6 year old boy is obsessed with playing with guns. Worry if he's still doing it when he's 36".

Star, bang to rights on being the mum of a boy. I wasn't really a "tomboy" (excuse the offensive terminology LOL) but unlike robinw I was allowed lego, meccano (plastic version!) and other non gender-specific toys. I loved dressing up and had dolls but honestly didn't go through a really girly phase that I remember.
My thing with Girl Heaven was that I felt it was a cynical attempt to cash in on this phase and that it relied blatantly on pester power. If I had a daughter who wanted frills and things of course she could have them but I think there are plenty of other toyshops etc where there is a bigger, more balanced range of toys: Barbies, My Little Pony etc alongside less frou-frou stuff. I just felt a bit queasy looking in the window...

Robinw, I've always been a tomboy too (am now an engineer), and I've never been into shopping (hate wasting so much time hooray for catalogues!). I do worry though that if I have a girl I won't know how to do pink! Do you think its hereditary!!

BTW, in my sons nursery they have a little baby doll with detailed sculpted male genitalia. Great eh?

Al this talk of girls and boys toys has reminded me of a mini dilemma I face. I was very much into all things dolly as a girl. My mother saved and labelled all my dolls and dolls house furniture, carefully wrapping them in tissue paper and string. I now have these boxes and suitcases im my loft. She categorised them according to size 'tiny dolls' not-so tiny dolls' 'small dolls' etc. The labels and the way they are wrapped up are as memory-jogging to me as the dolls themselves.

I'm sure my sons would love to see them and play with them. But they are not so far into dolls, much, and I don't think they would treat them with respect. They are just toys, when all is said and done. What do you think I should do?

Lil, I too was a tomboy, always played football, never played with dolls. I distinctly remember my first day at school, when I was 'made' to push a dolly in a pram up and down the room, thinking 'why'. Both my daughters are into anything pink and glittery (esp Barbie), they love playing hairdressers and moms & dads. Eldest won't play football as thats for boys. It's all been a bit of a culture shock!

Sometimes 'giving in' to an unusual request, can eliminate the problem. My son (almost 4) has been desperate for some jewellery for quite some time, but I haven't wanted him to walk about with pink barbie beads, or whatever, and get teased, and I haven't found anything suitably 'boy-ish'. Anyway at the swingpark on Sunday a friend wound some straw into a circle, and my son decided this was a bracelet, and went into raptures of gratitude to her for making him a bracelet! Anyway, I discussed with her my dilemma, and she suggested a friendship bracelet, would probably pass muster with both boys and girls at nursery. I duly spent ages making one on Sunday night - he wore it for a couple of hours on Monday, and hasn't mentioned bracelets since!

Kmg, my son used to love all things 'alien' including jewellery. He has a fine collection of alien and slightly heavy-metal-looking monster rings and used to wear a christmas cracker bead necklace customised with three plastic luminous skulls strung along it. What a love!

Should you be interested, 'Claire's Accessories' and similar shops have lots of this stuff, and those machines that spew out plastic capsules with a toy inside also come up with the goods.

I do like the sound of your hand made friendship bracelet though. A contemporary take on the traditional daisy chain.

I remember wanting to belong so badly to the local boys gang, that they gave me three little tests to see if I could qualify, No .1 Climbing the highest tree to the top No2 See if I could chew worms! (I did pass that one actually) Yuk!No 3 To see if I could pee the highest on the wall, (I failed miserably much to my sorrow!) Have always hated men after that !!!!!!

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Barbie trainers or not? Starling, please can you ask your friend if she's decided - school starts in a few weeks!

Hi Tigermoth - I've had a name change (problems with registration).Anyway, she didn't get the trainers, although he still asks about them - he doesn't easily forget these things. he is wearing some traditionally 'boyish' trainers at the moment.
His mum's strategy seems to be to keep the glittery stuff (of which he has quite a collection now) for 'at home', which he seems happy enough with for the moment, and has not yet thought to question why this is.

swords and guns for boys?-i think i tend to be a bit too pc. if i deprive my son of these will he become obsessed and be a mass murderer when he's older?? anyone got a pyschological analysis of this??!!

We (my brother and I) were not allowed toy guns, catapults, swords etc. as children and will do the same with our own. From a v early age it was explained to us that the real things hurt people and that it wasn't good even to pretend to do so. I guess we would sometimes pretend with bits of stick or something but it just wasn't an issue - we had plenty of other things to keep us amused and haven't turned into rampantly violent people through lack of expression as children; perhaps the opposite.

My 4 year old daughter, has asked for a pink bedroom, fine, but she wants an action man duvet cover!!! Ever since she found a miniture toy resembling action man, she's been interested. I will probably get her an action man if she's still interested at Christmas, as I think Ken is a bit naff.

With regard to depriving kids of things such as guns, I wouldn't worry about not giving them, I think psychos are born psychos!!

PS. What about these massive water gun things are they bad?

I remember playing with my brother's action man as a kid, I loved the tank and helicopter, but also had Sindy dolls too. My brother and myself also had great fun with those light sabres, from when Star Wars was around the first time (showing my age here), which of course are very much like swords.

I think if you are going to let your kids watch tv shows and movies that portray fighting, with guns, swords, fists or whatever, then it's a bit hypocrytical to turn around and say to them that they can't have them as toys.

Jac - I do hope you are not serious when you say psychos are born psychos????

Sweetie, thanks for replying. Just like to know these things!

Signed,
Big Nose of SE London.