Why are the government BOTHERING to push single parents back into paid work?

[Coldtits]

If you have two children, pay for £35 a week childcare and work 16 hours at the minimum wage you get

£70 a week working tax credit
£117 a week child tax credit
£30 a week child benefit
any maintenance your ex partner/s give you
And some of your rent paid if you are renting

That's a total of £217 of government money PLUS whatever they pay towards your rent.

Without working you get
£60 income support - with whatever maintenance your ex gives you being knocked (less £20) off this sum
£90 child tax credit
£30 child benefit.

SO, this is £180.

It costs the government LESS for me to stay at home and not work, they way the current set up is.

Why, when they are screaming from the rooftops about single parents going back to work, would they make it financially advantagious to THE GOVERNMENT for them not to? Why have they done this?

Yes, Twinkle. And those are just 2 examples. I can give you examples of lone parents I know who get no benefits but there are also examples of people CURRENTLY receving benefits who may go on to do courses, get promotoed, get different jobs etc and earn more money. If they don't get a job then that's not going to happen and crucially the longer you're out of work the harder it is to get back in at the same level and certainyl to get promoted.

I do take your point about the 'significant practical difficulties' but the point is that the interviews are not about forcing people back into work they are about establishing what obstacles are prevening them and seeing if there are any ways around it.

I think it is important to keep tabs on people (all people not jsut lone parents) receiving benefits for 2 reasons.

1. Accountablility. You can't just give taxpayers money away and I think it's right that people prove eligibility.

2. support and skills. Even the best qualified and most intelligent people can lose confidence and skills out of the workforce. But also people receiveing benefits (and their children) are vulneralbe and may need advice and support on a whole range of issues.

I don't think there's anything unreasonable about this actually.

that's my point five candles - even getting a promotion in many lines of work doesn't mean that you're not still going to be living on the breadline backed up by benefits!! A promotion doens't mean loads of money. Quite often it just means a fancier title.

I was paid a shit wage £5.50 (just above the then minimum wage) I had no experience and no qualifications (as mention above they did eventualy get round to sort out for me to start my NVQ but it never went anywhere).

I was being paid £1.50 less tan hour han someone with 20yrs experience and 2 NVQ's (and about three rungs of the ladder higher than me!!!). Hardly an amount that's going to have a significant effect on any benefits someone might be receiving at £5.50 an hour.

oh and yes they're just 2 exmaples, but they're both examples of people who started off at the bottom (as lets face it most people do) and worked their way up.........for what?? A nicer job title as it turns out.

gold you keep making the same point which really isn't taking into account what I've been saying. You're talking about a few specific examples and worst case scenarios and using this as a reason why lone parents shouldn't go to work.

Yes, there are lone parents on the minimum wage who earn benefits but they would get more benefits over their lifetime if they weren't working.

But there are lone parents who earn more than the minimum wage and in many cases considerably more.

And there are many who go from the minimum wage and benefits to a bigger salary and less benefits on a sliding scale.

In addition to this there are other advantages to the Govt and the individual and their families and society as a whole of working such as paying tax and NI (where they are eligibile), doing a job which is rewarding or useful, self-esteem, developing skills etc etc.

ANd there are disadvantages of not working which is not doing all of the above and meaning that you have no chance of earning more than the minimum wage or getting promoted (as long as you're not working) and may be missing out on developing professional and personal skills etc etc.

I think an additional problem is that many (older, adequately-paid) people think that shitwork low-paid jobs can turn into better jobs if the jobholder eats enough shit works hard. This is becoming less and less true. The low-level servicing jobs still exist, but there are few opportunities for advancement through hard work, because the next-level-up jobs are given not given to the people on the base level, but advertised to 'graduate trainees' etc.

but gold I could give you plenty of examples of people who have started at the bottom and had promotions and now earn a good living and don't get any benefits. And what does that prove? You can't use your personal expereicne to make a wider point about the value or otherwise of workign for all lone parents.

yes well perhaps I've worked (as a married parent) in jobs where promotions - and the pathetic salary increases to go with them, and any form of other "benefits" from the company are totaly non-existent.

Maybe I know too many people (with a DP/DH and LP, children and no children ) who have slogged their guts out for crap wages for years, doing well at their job, applying for better positions, but still finding themselves stuck at the bottom of the ladder.

It does become rather easy to become cyniical when people talk about these jobs with pension schemes, and qualifications paid for by the employer, and decent salaries as if everyone can just go out and get them - and whenthere's certainly not many advertised round these parts either.

sticksanta - x posts with you - thankyou that's part of what I've been trying to say

I'm a teacher gold not a millionaire! And I didn't just 'go out and get my job' I worked hard for it. As I've said I had my share of crap jobs (chambermaiding, waitressing) to get myself through university, then I tempted, then I did my PGCE and then I worked hard to find a job and worked my way up. I don't think anyone thinks that a good job or success is easy you have to work really, really hard.

is it too difficult to go to college to make yourself better qualified - genuine question

Sorry off topic a bit but when did the Govt start paying 80% of childcare costs? AFAIK it was 60%? If it's 80% I might be able to put dd2 into nursery and work more through the day instead of running myself ragged working nights and still having to get up with the kids in the morning.

Custardo - I think everyone else that lives round here must be thicko's , bored housewives or geeks (and I'd like to think of myself as neither ) they offer brush up/basic courses, IT and Business Management courses or needlework and flower arrangement

That's all very well saing you did crap jobs such as chamber maiding and waitressing - but have you ever seen such jobs with hours where childcare is even available - or that pay more than the minimum wage (as I didn't see any this time last year while frantically job hunting), or are more than 16hrs a week?

How old are your children? Not eligible for free nursery places yet?

I think the thing about my life is that I got my qualifications and job sorted out before having children so then I had a job worth holding on to that I really enjoyed and that I knew would be worthwhile financially in the long term. That's certainly what I would encourage my own girls to do too.

It's been up to 80% for over a year IIRC.

ahh yes FC - that's what my mum encourage me to do too.

In fact I agreed with her and had it all planned out

18 - Finish school and go on my Gap Year before taking up my University place
19-23 Unviersity
23-25/26 find a job and star paying off students debts
27/28 start thinking about meeting someone
30ish get married
30 something - have children...........

I'm 29 (heading towards 30), have DS's aged 8,5 and 19 months...........and now seperated from my exH after 8 and a bit years of marriage................things don't always work out like we "planned".

Ah right well it was over a year ago that I had dd1 in nursery while working so if it has changed I might look into getting dd2 into nursery. I think it would be good for her and me and means that I would be available to work more hours and less nights.

DD1 is now in reception class but does dancing so couldn't go into after school clubs, however there is another mum who is an old school friend of dh's whose children go to the same school and same dancing so am sure she wouldn't mind dropping off dd1 at dancing with her own children. She can dress herself etc.

Totally agree re it not making much financial sense pushing single mums back into work.

i really don't blame people for staying on benefits.

i mean, like trust the government?

haaahaaaaahhhaaaa.

yeah, i still believe in santa, too.

for real.

got this of moneysavingexpert.com

"I work as an Enrolment officer within a college this is what we allow - this may vary from college to college. Contact your local college for further information.

For funding help with fee's

Income Support - Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college) Please check if you are allowed to be in receipt of IS and studying full time. Part time would be ok.

Housing Benefit / Council Tax Benefit - Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)

Pension Credit Guaranteed - Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)

Job Seekers Allowance - We are aware that you are NOT supposed to study Full Time 15+ hours a week and claim JSA as you are making yourself unavailable for work BUT you can study part time = Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)

Working Tax Credit - Household Income declared less than £15,050 = Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)
Anything over this amount you would get a percentage off the full fee up to an income of £25,000 (This is probably College Specific)

There are some government funded schemes known as Level 2 and Level 3 entitlement.

Level 2 (No age restriction) is for anyone studying for their first FULL level 2 qualification course and do not hold a level 2 qualification = Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)

Level 3 (19-25 year olds currently) is for anyone studying for their first FULL level 3 qualification course and do not hold a Level 3 qualification = Tuition fee would be waived Exam fee would be payable (Though assistance may be available through student Welfare Fund - dependant on college)

16-18 year olds - Free for LSC funded course (Most courses within a Further education college"

but at the same time, why's it okay for someone else to clean the toilets in Mcdondalds and pay tax on that income whilst you train for something 'better', which they might not eligible for without a loan rather than a grant?

see what i mean?

i mean, no wonder people stay on benefits, no?

i dunno. never been on 'em. would be better off it we were, to be sure.

most trying not to freak about our housing situation, as the new year comes on, but can't avoid it.

some don't know they were born, i guess.

well considering that exam fees are often upwards of £300 I can see why single mothers would jump at that chance

My college is free though for any person on a low income/qualifying benefits inc. IS, HB and carers allowance. This is for GCSE, AS/A levels, NVQ's, Access Courses and Diplomas.

You just have to pay an admin fee of £15 and even that can be paid in installments. I wonder why this college is different?

that's a fare point expat.

give us your town faq and let us do the work on researching it - of course if thats what you want to do - you might not.

fair even .

And what that doesn't mention is childcare - or travel costs.

Our "local" college is spread across several sites in 3 different (or is it 4?) towns. Many of the part time courses are evenings, thie makes childcare difficult, not to meniotn travel costs (return bus fare to the closest campus which offers anything other than the stuff I mentioned abovce is £5.20 return. Don't know how much return to the furthest one away is - but it's getting on for an hours bus journey).

If you're lucky and it's a course that's durig the day you may get a place in the creche for you pre-school child, but if you don't then you have to sort out childcare for them. If it's evening you have to find (and pay for) a babysitter in the evening.

i don't blame people for staying on them, FAQ. never have, never will. there's a whole lot bigger, more absorbant sponges out there, IME.