"Too much intelligence eats your brains"

[Colditz]

I was discussing this last night with my intelligent misfit friends (and some of my intelligent normal friends too). We came to the conclusion that if you have a high IQ, far from saving you work, it actually causes you work. You are unable to be contented with repetitive work without talking to yourself, spreading malicious gossip or keeping Gin in your pocket, and getting away from boring work takes EFFORT at a young age, when many people (especially very intelligent ones) may not be emotionally mature enough to realise that they will not be 15 for ever and need to pull their finger out.

I came to this conclusion after realising that NOBODY who was a particularly high flier in my classes (which were some top sets) is both happy and successful. The two people who have been successful in their chosen careers (archeologist and hedge fund manager) were, I know, bullied systematically by their parents, one had a nervous breakdown and the other is anorexic. Then there's the scores who never got that far, three bar staff, 2 factory workers, 2 care assistants. All going quietly nuts, drinking too much, staying up into the small hours bickering about the nature of intelligence when they have a 6 am start on a Sunday morning, drugs, ohhhh the drugs these clever people take.

And then there's the people I know who were bright, but not in the top top sets. They almost all "succeeded", or are at least happy with what they're doing. They are living happy, calm, cheerful normal lives, without the screaming angsts of 3am and no sleep and 6am start and your head won't SHUT UP. They are running offices, and going to the gym, and managing pubs, and working as nurses, and vet nurses, or depo managers ... they all have good jobs, and seem mostly really happy (these are the people I know from the classes I was in that were middle ability classes).

There seems to be a much higher degree of conventional success from the people who were not in the top 5% for everything, is what I am saying. And there seems to be a greater degree of happiness too, and fewer social and mental health problems. SO why?

Is it a failure on the part of the education system? Is it an inbuilt neurological imbalance? Is it because the very very clever never really have to work at school, and coast until they hit the real world where coasting doesn't cut the mustard? Any other ideas? Criticisms?

My DH is def hyperintelligent - has a double first class degree, decided not to take up a PhD at Harvard, and is incredibly knowledgable in a number of areas outside this.

He has a great job, but not one that is insane - it's varied enough to challenge him though. Has always been very happy with his life.

I know a number of other very intelligent people who have careers that make them happy and challenged as well as good home lives (and I don't count myself as very intelligent in this, even though I have an MSc to give a measure)

I have a near flinch reaction when my old friends rabble to my new friends about how "Brainy" I am. because when you're "Really brainy" you are not allowed to fuck up. ANd this fear of fucking up, and having the world scream "But you're really brainy, how on earth have you fucked this up?>" is a fear of mine.

This culture places too much kudos on intelligence IMO. ... Meaning if you have it, it's assumed you will do well, and if not, why not? Other skills,, like drive, motivation, hard work, early rising etc are ignored in comparison, and I think they are more important.

Plus plus plus... I think if you know that you're really quite clever, there is a sort of arrogance that goes with it. I left University, despite the complication of a baby in tow, thinking that of course people would want to employ me because I was clever. Everything else had been comparatively easy, so the working world would be as well.

It took me a long time to work out that actually being clever does not equate to having the ability to do a job well, or to get on with people, or to take instruction, or any of the other skills that are as important as intelligence.

So maybe what causes the comparative lack of success is actually the arrogance that goes with intelligence?

I'll come back when I've time to read all posts but I reckon you've articulated what a lot of us have pondered.

The old adage - 'ignorance is bliss' is a luxury. To survive (in an evolutionary sense) we must be sceptical, suspicious bastards (maybe). Like I said, I'll be back.

I was in all top sets at school but i was lucky to find out at university that i'm not actually all that intelligent compared to the others who were getting firsts in theortetical physics (my degree) and were bound for real greatness. I luckily worked out that i am just very good at learning. it's a talent.

luckily i then found (after a bit of trial and error) a job where i could learn new stuff every day and get paid to translate it into everyday language for ordinary non-speicalist people.

i do however have to also do extra degree courses on the side to keep myself satisfied and also i have taught myself languages and economics.

HOWEVER i don't have kids yet and i don't quite know what will happen to me when they are taking up every spare minute but not in such an intellectual way. I HOPE i can be happy.... but i'm a bit aprehensive.

This is an interesting discussion.

Apologies if I am repeating what somebody else has said (I have skimmed but not read every word) but the root to happiness seems to be not high IQ but high emotional intelligence - the ability to handle life and its ups and downs.

I would have thought it is a rare person indeed who excelled in both areas. I am sure they exist but I can't think of an example at the moment.

I wouldn't blame it on the education system although we don't really teach our children EQ. I suppose part of it is down to nature. Maybe the brain isn't capable, in most people of thinking and feeling to its optimum capacity at the same time.

I am not super bright - I have had to work for my qualification but I think I would rather be less bright but have higher EQ than to be brainy and miserable.

I was top in my classes.
I went to a prestigious university.
I had sever anorexia and ended up with a tube up my nose.
I have chronic depression.
I have done fuck all useful in my life - been unable to hold down a good job without getting ill again, etc.

Not exactly conclusive, but I see where you are coming from.

severe
I can't bloody type/proof read either.

good luck fluffles. its one hell of an adjustemnt but cut yourself some slack and im sure you'll get there. sincerely; the best of everything to you

Perhaps the problem is with labeling ('top of the class', 'top 1%') - and the expectations that go along with that?
Those kids who you thought were just of average intelligence and are doing really well now may simply not have responded to or flourished in a school environment at a young age. No-one was pushing them like the labeled kids - and they were allowed to find their own path.

Take me - never labeled as one of the top kids but went to uni, did a degree, pissed off around the world for a few years, came back, did law, did a masters, now a PhD and lecturing in law at university.

No-one ever expected it of me, no-one ever pushed me, I was allowed to find my own path - and it was one of academia. My old teachers would be surprised!!

So, from my corner it is about community, parental and self-imposed expectations and labeling. Let your kids be, they might surprise you.

actually neicie, i think emotional intelligence is one of my good points. blighted on occasion by a tendency towards depression and anxiety [oh joy], but def an area of strength for me i think.
(well its certainly not bloody maths im intelligent at, thats for damn sure!)

labelled top and then pushed may be bad
but labelled top and then ignored is just as bad imo.

So true. As soon as I had to work for something I fell flat on my arse and sank into depression. I play out senarios in my head also - I can see what will happen and then will decide to do it or not. Things I have to work for are bloomin' hard, esp. when depressed and things I don't are boring to me. My sister has done far better than me and I was always 'the bright one'.

Actually, I'm going to completely disagree with the debate so far. I was in all the top sets at school (and was officially top 5% in country) but because I had a friend who was equally good (we shared top place across the subjects) we kept working, even though we flew through most subjects without doing any real work. So even when I found things harder at uni I tried harder again rather than just giving up and staying lazy.

Don't get me wonrg, it wasn't at the cost of my social life either - I took the ability to down more pints at university as competitive as well.

I'm now CEO of the second company I've set up doing work I learnt during my PhD.

I blame my parents as much as the education system - they pushed me to compete with my sisters too.

colditz - swp - socialist workers party.

soooo

Should I have come to the conclusion that most of the very intelligent people I know were simply late developers? Or that we had an unlucky year? Or (and this I believe to be true) I attended an appalling comprehensive school and the average classes were lucky enough to have the better teachers? Could this be true?

I personally also blame that I'm a Jack of All Trades and as a result can never stick with one thing because there's something else I could be equally doing which also looks interesting. So I learn something new until I get to the point where it gets tricky, get bored, then find something else new and exciting.

How could I stick to a career... find only ONE path for the rest of my life?! What if I chose the wrong one?!!

(I suppose that goes back to the overthinking point!)

Haha! I joined the SWP at college for a couple of months. In order to snog boys. The plan failed.

I never had to work hard at school, or college, pissed it off really. It did take me a couple of goes to finish my degree, as I quit when I hit a challenge. The year I finished it, I worked, but not hard, and came out with a 2:1.
I was press-ganged into doing the MA, and found it a challenge. I actually got a good mark, but the expectations were higher, and I discovered that I'm not a 'natural' academic and I'm not as good at working in my field as I would be had I had to try. I don't know 'why' I did well at lower levels.
Also I'm very bad at being 'professional' because I've always done my best work at the last minute, and we had to do work-in-progress presentations.
I'm probably capable of getting firsts and distinctions, but I've just coasted along.
And as soon as I finished the MA, I got pregnant, hence my choice of username.

Very interesting thread. I guess I come under the category of people who have given up hope of financial success. I do actually do a job I really enjoy, which challenges me as much as I wish to be challenged now that I'm a parent. But the pay is crap and isn't likely to improve much unless I move into management, which would bore me rigid.

Like RubberDuck, I was pushed a lot at school but never really had to work that hard. I got all A's in all my public exams, for example, with minimal revision. I was very good academically and I also excelled at music, so I was juggling academic and music exams the whole time. My parents' overriding ambition was for me to pursue music as a career, and I did get a place at music college to do just that.

Then it all kind of fell apart. I for one think it was something that hasn't been mentioned yet - burn out. I was labelled as intelligent from a very early age and started school a year early, which led to me having to repeat a year before being allowed into senior school. Then the year at music college, and then a degree. After leaving music college I deliberately chose a degree subject simply because it interested me, and I also deliberately turned down an Oxbridge place.

After my degree that was it for me. I felt no desire to go any further in academia - many of my friends were planning to do masters, PHDs etc but I just wanted to get out in the real world and live, because I hadn't really done that right through childhood. In my chosen career I am actually pretty successful - it's very hard to find a decent job in this sector. But it doesn't define me - once I gave up on music I always knew that I wouldn't be a "career woman", and so it has turned out. Wasted potential? Possibly, but thankfully I am happy - poor, but happy.

Do you guys feel horrible guilt for not achieving more though?

I know my parents paid a lot for my education and made a lot of sacrifices. That was their choice, of course, but I do feel shame that I haven't achieved what they hope I would. I know they were very disappointed in my poor university grade.

I think I'd feel happier about my life choices if I didn't feel like I'd failed them/my teachers quite so much.

I like your username, wastingmyeducation, because I feel like I am doing that too

Oh thank you Rubberduck
I believe in education for education's sake and that as being a mother is the most important and influential job there is, that it is vital to be as educated as possible. Ahem.

That's what I know logically, but it's hard for me to really believe it.

I do enjoy learning just for the sake of it. I'd love to do some evening courses and collect weird A-levels just for the hell of it, but can't justify the money when it's not actually leading to anything

I don't feel guilty, no. Because I told my mother when I was about 14 that I was horribly depressed and her reply was "Don't be ridiculous, children don't get depressed. Go away."

And really, I could have done with some counseling but I would never have been allowed to go to that in case it came out that dad used to drag me round by my hair when he lost his temper. So no, I don't feel guilty, i do feel very angry though, that depression was allowed to ruin my life until my doctor spotted it when I was 20. All because "Children don't get depression"

But this is kind of beside the pointm,, sorry!

Yes I feel guilty. I feel that my parents are disappointed in me - the constant comments that I should be earning twice as much etc. The comments aren't accusatory, it's just that they don't understand that working hard and being good at your job isn't enough to get paid more (especially in the public sector).

Although they paid for a private education, it's the music that I really feel guilty about - the thousands of pounds spent on lessons over the years. I know they were very disappointed when I dropped out of music college, and I guess the fact that I didn't get a high-flying career either rubs salt in the wound.

Even if I could afford it I wouldn't have DS educated privately (there's no chance of having to make the choice!). I think there is too much spoon feeding and too much pushing. I would prefer DS to learn self-motivation from an early age, and not to believe that you are only worth something if you achieve excellent results.