Why is it that people are so obsessed with testing for Downs syndrome, when there are so many other disabilities which cannot be tested for, that are far, far worse?

[wannaBe]

It baffles me.

When we fall pregnant we are offered tests, and scans, most, although not all of which relate to the detection of Downs Syndrome.

At 12 weeks we are offered a nuchal fold scan to determine the likelyhood of the baby having downs, and women over 35 are routinely offered anmio to detect whether the baby has downs.

92% of pregnancies where Downs is detected are terminated .

And yet there are lots of other disabilities, such as cerebral palsy, autism, other disabilities which cause learning difficulties, which cannot be detected in utero, but which can be much, much worse than downs.

So what is it about Downs that is so scary?

Or would people have far more stressful pregnancies if all disabilities could be tested for, and would they feel that they had to be sure their baby would be perfect?

I was illustrating how having a severely SN child would impact my life, a point that seems lost on many of the more obtuse of you.

twelvelegs - do you really think I do not know about China?

I have been there myself (prechildren), and to a lot of the rest of the world.

I believe one of your issues was about flights - I pointed out that it was possible.

i also mentioned we would be taking dd1 to China soon.

dd1 was born in Kenya. she has also been to dubai, and singapore. Not bad for a short life...

hmmm, obviously must have been mad to contemplate it...

And we are trying to point out that, sometimes, it only impacts negatively if you let it.

Pag, you flew alone with three? No DH.
Perhaps yours are a different age to mine, as two under two is not allowed for flight safety, I can't imagine a child in a wheelchair and an infant, and nt child would be safe should you need to help all to evacuate.

I can think of many reasons why someone might choose to terminate a pregnancy. And might agonize over it.

But not being able to go to china has to be the shallowest one I've ever come across.

twelvelegs
I think the point was not lost. But the obscurity of the example that you gave perhaps illustrated how many of us manage perfectly regular lives. My son is very well travelled. People can assume that he cannot travel. His ability to cover trances ofthe world is not part of my equation.
And actually DS2 would do China no problem

I honestly was not nit picking. Butthe concept that travel is not do-able is another pre conception. It may be totally relevent in your personal circumastances but it remaoins a marginal issue for most because either travel is easy ( as it is for me) or because travel is not that big a deal

'We' taking your child, not 'I' taking three soon to be four children. If I view only negative impacts of a SN child then surely I am not the right person to have one???

I feel this is a whole other thread but... twelvelegs you say 'a fetus I have no relationship with' Is that really true? Every pregnant woman I've ever spoken to has a relationship of some sort with the fetus, myself included. That doesn't mean hard choices don't have to be made, they do of course.

Yes, clearly not visiting my parents is a shallow reason and the onll one that would mean I would terminate a child. FFS.
I could list all of the reasons if you would consider even one valid, but you have a child whom you love dearly and couldn't be without and there wouldn't be a reason in the world good enough.
I had a termination at 19 for no reason other than I didn't love the father, would it have been a worse decision if the child had been disabled and that was the reason?

Assumptions, assumptions, twelvelegs.

If "we" do go to china, I will undoubtedly be travelling on my own with my children, possibly with my stepchildren as well (and by the time we go, there will probably be another mini-silverfrog).

I will meet dh out there, yes, but I am assuming you too meet someone out in china too.

Flights are usually down to me, due to ridiculous work schedule of dh's.

Yes I flew alone
DD was 18 moths DS2 was 8 and DS1 was 11.

My son is not in a wheelchair. Severe disability does not equal wheelchair.
Virgin didn't mind but I think I freaked some of the passengers in premium economy out.

Northern... I am not so sentimental (no sarcasm) I love my children but don't warmly look upon my bump with love but I do my newborn.

Twelvelegs

I have already said you personal circs make the travel to China issue a big deal. I do understand that

I think the relationship between a woman who wants to be pregnant and her fetus must be VERY different from that of a woman who does not want to be pregnant.

I wanted ds, he was a baby to me, not a fetus. But I didn't actually know him - it was the potential baby I was bonding with, I guess. And the kicks and movements later on.

yes edam that makes perfect sense.

But how does one go from wanting to be pregnant and bonding with that baby and looking forward to its arrivel, to suddenly not wanting to be pregnant when you hear that the baby is not the one you imagined?

Yes Edam I agree - but there is still a relationship and Twelvelegs that's not 'sentiment' - that's nature, life, maternal instinct, whatever. I think we would all do ourselves a favour if we stopped idolising parenthood as a state that enhances ourselves. Parenthood is joyful - it is also tiring and painful but despite and indeed because of those things it is one of the ways in which we explore our potential as human beings. We choose what we choose but must not pretend that any of those choices are cost-free. I think society as a whole would be well served to stop looking for the 'free' option and get stuck in!

We have decided that currently flying with ds1 is an impossibility. Traveling with him is very difficult - which is a shame as he enjoys it. However, we went on a ferry this year and he loved it (you can't say ferry near him now as he leaps up and drags you to the door).

If there was some reason why ds1 absolutely had to go on a plane then we would just have to get on with it.

And I'm still not seeing missing out on foreign travel as being a reason for my life to be so dreadful. I travelled a lot before kids. Can't say I'd particularly want to do it with ds2 or ds3, let alone ds1.

We have plans for places we will go when all the boys have left home (not martyring myself to the idea of keeping my child at home until the day I day- residential provision is often better than day provision anyway).

jimjam, twelvelegs parents are in china....therefore regular travel to china is part of her life....

I haven't been to china! damn!

I did travel to florida recently however and was told on the plane that we wouldn't be able to travel on the upper deck (had pre-booked seats there) as it was against health and safety in the event of an emergency.

We came up against that problem too wannabe.

we had booked a wheelchair for dd1 (for use at the terminal in case she got a bit overawed), and then found that, due to this, the airline computer had moved her (just her, not all of us!) downstairs.

we queried, and got told that as she was down as a disabled passenger, she had to be on the main deck. we asked them to guarantee our buggy (either on the plane, or to meet us at arrival) but they wouldn't.

they couldn't give us a good reason as to why she wasn't allowed on the top deck, but also kept moving her (alone) downstairs, even when we had taken the disabled flag off (recomended course of action)

even the people at customer services were shocked when we pointed out that they were makng a 3 year old travel alone (and a disabled one at that) but no-one could override the system...

we had to get senior management to re-book stuff for us...

I realise that- which is why I said if I had to travel we'd have to get on with it.

However, my son condition cannot be tested for anenatally (and in his case is more disabling than most cases of DS) so perhaps it's a good job that we don't need to travel to China regularly. . If travelling was so important to me then to be blunt I wouldn't have children (in fact split up with someone for that very reason- travelling was very important to him and so he refused to have children, I decided there was no way we could work, so we split).

Actually in-laws live in Ireland. They usually make the journey to see us, rather than the other way round. If dh needs to fly over he goes alone. Simple solution.