We are in a world recession - is this really the time to listen to the media about 'boring' Brown?

[Monkeytrousers]

Boring is good, isn't it. Maybe not for the media, but definelty for us. Isn't the media agenda for 'dynamic' news worthy politics contry top our national interest at this time? Have they been a bit spoilt by the drama of the Blair prime ministership?

Is is really the time to hand over power top the Tories who have an ideological interest in preserving the privledges of the rich - especially at this time?

oh policy - lol at your addition of on the whole 'journos are basically bored of domestic news (because they're thick and/or lazy, on the whole)'. You naughty thing. I think you'll find tomorrow and on Sunday massive massive coverage of this story.

If you checked out what the insiders thought early yesterday (they take a poll of political insiders), most thought Labour would win. Just.

The loss of this by election was a HUGE thing for labour. Huge, huge, huge. This isn't the media making stuff up. This is people actually VOTING against labour.

The interesting thing is what happens now.

Well I'll admit it was a touch hyperbolic, but the fact that there will be massive coverage of the Glasgow East defeat doesn't really disprove my point, does it? It fits in with the 'Brown DISASTER' narrative that the press is so enjoying. They did the same thing to Major. Basically, they aren't going to let go until he's out, either before or after a GE. And given that there isn't a senior Labour politican who would be massively popular with the voters, they'll probably keep going until the Tories are elected.

One thing you can say for Brown is that he seems genuinely concerned about poverty, domestic and international. The Tories won't be. That's one big difference for me. But I do agree with Dee that Brown is also the driving force behind PFIs, which have been disastrous for state-owned concerns (health, education). But it's not like the Tories are going to turn the clock back on that one.

it is a disaster though. Glasgow East, huge labour stronghold. I don't know how else you could interpret that result. (it's me foxinsocks btw!)

Oh, right! Hello!

ah ok, I get your point now! (Was gunning down the A3 the other day, made me think of you).

Yes, I think it is a tough time for him. One thing about Brown is that he really took over a poisoned chalice. It is like John Major in a sense in that you just got the feeling that things 'had' to change. I think the media DOES have something to do with that but I also think people get to the stage where they believe they need a change. That someone has been doing it too long and we need some new ideas. It's how people felt in 97 really wasn't it. And people were getting restless with Blair towards the end. All the promises that people felt came to nothing.

In fact, they haven't achieved nothing at all (labour), it's just people have got short memories and some have forgotten what life under the Tories was like.

I also blame the politicians you know policy. One of the worst things to happen is this ridiculous battle for the centre ground. Everything is so samey now, people have no idea who stands for what anymore.

i feel so, so, so sorry for the man. i met him once, he was terribly charismatic and dishy [political] and trustworthy i felt. (this was way back, i should say, pre New Labour).

i am very worried that this characterisation of him as a boring fool (i do think he seems to be a fatal ditherer for himself) will gift sodding eton fucker david cameron the election and send us all to hell in a handbasket. dunno, it reminds me of al gore and bush in a way. more 'character' driven than news driven, iykwim?

agree with monkeytrousers and policywonk, as ever.

GB is now on his way out because that is the story of the moment and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

The idea that he mismanaged the economy because he "sold gold" is just completely off target. The chancellor's role is to manage funds by buying/selling assets owned centrally so the buying and selling of gold happens very regularly. The UK sold a reasonable chunk of gold a few years back since when the price of gold has gone up massively but hands up who here has the slightest idea where it's going next? It's impossible (literally impossible) to forecast. As for inflating asset prices, well, that accusation can be levelled against every government in the Western world including the Tories.

Oh and the credit crunch is not the creation of any government.

I don't speak for GB, am not even particularly a labour voter but I used to work for him, knew him reasonably well, know what drives him. He's obsessed with tackling poverty and everything we ever did when I worked for him was about targeting poverty. No one need be under any illusion that that also happened under Ken Clark who I also worked for.

It shocks me when I realise what short memories people have.

I think he comes across as a very genuine man and someone who really wants the job but you know what, sometimes he looks like he's trying too hard and that doesn't come across well does it.

Blair was the consummate statesman. Cameron has that same air about him. It's the confidence I think. Poor Brown is lacking that and it's only going to get worse.

He can't recover from here surely.

but he is not sexy!

you ladies just stop that business right now!

he is NOT sexy, David Tennant is not sexy, Gordon Ramsay is not sexy and you all need to stop drinking because you are wearing beer goggles .

oh and agree with exterminaitch.

He's fascinating, compelling, terrifying. Certainly not boring and certainly not a fool.

Perhaps that doesn't come across on TV but I'd far rather trust someone like him than the bunch of Etonites who are talking a good game of being very modern and liberal but who actually all joined the Tory party in the late 80s. My god. Remember what that was like?

expat, he is a little bit

i dont think he can, foxy, and i hold your dh entirely responsible for his downfall...

margoandjerry, have you seen cameron's WHSmith defence against short memories? apparently if we can remember what it was like to buy a single in there then we're not going to vote tory. or something. glad you liked GB, i hate to see what's happening to him.

expat you'd have dropped your knick-knacks for him in a heartbeat, i tell you...

he was v intense. son of a preacher man kinda thing, as i recall. but actually quite affable as well (although we were drinking so a lot of affability present that night). and the size of his BRAIN! sexylicious.

and margo... of COURSE. hadn't thought about cameron joining then... what an absolute cunt he must be.

haven't heard that before but I can see the logic.

I really could not bring myself to vote tory under any circs. It's not at all about Thatcher (for whom I actually have a tiny amount of - well, sympathy is the wrong word, but sort of understanding of what she had to tackle because I also do remember just about the winter of discontent and the candles at home and stuff). For me my real objection is the horrible, self-promoting, self-enriching band who emerged around that time and who spent their whole time bashing gays, single parents, foreigners.

Remember clause 28? The Peter Lilley speech about single mothers? The dreadful anti-Europe stuff?

You don't have to be a massive liberal to be just so relieved that we seemed to have got past all that. Now we're going back to that...

Of course you can predict the price of gold. It goes down when times are good (and there are more profitable things to invest in) and up in a credit crunch/recession.
You don't sell gold in the good times.

I know. Is there anything more cuntworthy?

George Osbourne (real name Gideon BTW) and Cameron both joined about that time - at the absolute peak of their dreadfulness. It's shameful imho. If I had had their privileges - their silver spoon backgrounds and their Eton eduction - I wouldn't have the brass neck to have joined the Tories back then.

I would have appreciated my position of privilege and considered that perhaps I was in no position to make judgements on the rest of the world.

Cameron represents a revival of 1980s economics, a hostile attitude to Europe. Great.

The Tories always go backwards.

He makes me shudder.

Give me Gordon every time. And give Gordon two years. See where where we are then.

purits, and did you predict the credit crunch? If so can you tell us when it will end and at what level the S&P 500 will bottom? And then when its next peak will be and at what level?

Didn't think so.

The thing with Tories is that they don't pretend they aren't doing well - they don't hide their wealth and background

With this last lot of Labour they really are Chanpagne Socialists of the first order....

....I will say I am for the common man but only if I am drinking v. expensive wine and able to afford expensive houses

Bloody awful

Personally, I can never forgive Labour/TB for Irag - pure and simple and I will never, ever vote for them as long as I live

phew - gald that rant is over1

Every predicted the credit crunch. Hasn't everyone been saying that houses are overpriced?

Or did he really believe 'no more boom and bust'? I thought he was supposed to be intelligent.

GB as Chancellor simply rode on the crest of an economic wave - the man was no genious and he did not deserve any credit for the last 10 years

anyone could have done it

Quite so, SCM. Tony has done very nicely out of being PM hasn't he?

Quite so again SCM. I don't seem to remember Labour telling us that the good times were down to global circumstances.

Persoanlly, I hate TB
From the moment he did that God awful speech about Diana when I realised he was such an actor and couldn't be trusted

can't stand the man and hate the fact that he has done so well out of killing people and being totally self-interested

The man is self-obsessed and not self-aware...the worst of all crimes