Is it ok to for the fire service, police and army to be involved with school and family fun days?

[tigermoth]

If you go to a school fair or a family fun day (ie an event specifically for children and families) do you think it's ok for emergency organisations like the fire, police and army to have a presence?

I say this because the many brave people who are employed by these organisations risk death in the course of their daily work.

Obviously bringing down a fire engine for children to climb into is not the same as a heavy recruitment drive, but all the same, recruitment has to be one reason why they are there. If asked, the firemen and women are going to talk positively about their work (I would imagine)and explain how to join up. Same for the army or for the police.

I have no set views on this, btw.

yes i'm all for it, watching a fit soldier walking around is one of the perks of doing a day's facepainting at events

I am a bit shocked at the anti Armed Forces feeling - soldiers and children's events don't mix? Would you like to ban all the Armed Forces dads from kids parties then? The Armed Forces have families too you know.

Often the Army/ Marines will bring along a mobile climbing wall which is great fun, or rig a ropes course for older boys to do. It is also a meet and greet exercise to raise awareness of the Armed Forces.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that the Armed Forces think that killing people is fun - they don't, as you'd know if you talked to them. We also don't have child soldiers in the UK, so that is a particularly specious argument. I think you'll also find that the Armed Forces don't talk to younger children about war being morally neutral - we waited until ds was 11 for that one.

As the Royal Tournament has been cancelled for many years, this is a way of making connections with communities, especially for the Servicemen, as they may be away from their communities for much of the time.

There's a local farmers market/fair type thing and all these are regularly present. I fact we just got all our smoke alarms etc. fitted for free as result!

Fire service yes. Police possibly, Army - absolutely no.

The RAF have built two trim trails and put up a basketball net for our primary school. Fair enough we are the local school and most kids have parents in the RAF, but they've also done it for most of the schools in the area.

We have RAF police and fire as well attending events. As well as search and resource. Its not all about violence. There is a lot of humanitarian stuff the armed forces do.

Yeah, I'm fine with the emergency services, but not with the military.

Locally we get the non-officer kiddy cadets, and it depresses me to see the local kids as future cannon fodder. (Obviously independent schools get the officer groups.) The military are generally recruiting fairly obviously at these things, while the emergency services only have safety-related flyers.

I'd say it's fine and a good idea in fact, it familiarises children with the fire service/police, so they arent associated negatively in their minds.

No, Scaryteacher, I don't think that badly of people in the services. But when they turn up at the school fair, or whatever, which is supposed to be a fun event, and children learn to associate them with climbing walls and suchlike, that doesn't really convey the seriousness of their main purpose, does it? especially when children- well boys mostly- are also targeted with lots of war type play/entertainment.

I don't have a problem with the military being at these events - not least because they're usually there because there's a significant presence of one branch or other of the armed forces in the area. So you're either 'preaching' to the converted (families of servicemen/women) or often trying to develop better relationships between them and the non-military families in the community.

Those areas also don't really need the negative aspects pointing out either - I was early secondary school age in the Portsmouth area during the Falklands war, and knew perfectly well that not everyone's dad came home.

MLE - for the most part these events are for PR and to show a face as mandated by the MOD. Have you not thought that doing an event like this might be light relief from what these guys do an a daily basis, and they may not want to talk about what they do to kids, but are enjoying seeing the kids doing the rope walk or the climbing wall?

Boys may be targeted with 'war type' play (though I'm not sure I agree). That doesn't mean that you as a parent have to let them have access to it. That also doesn't mean that kids of both genders can't enjoy a climbing wall. Go to Plymouth Hoe on the weekend that there is a fun event and the kids are queued up for the climbing.

I was in Fareham (late secondary school age) during the Falklands DCMB, and I remember it only too well, especially as my Dad missed going by 5 minutes. He was so disappointed, as was my dh who was sent home from sea to finish his degree.

I wouldn't have a problem with it in the least, but then I have one or two mates in the army (ok, and a squaddie fetish) so I know they are people. And objecting is a little like whining that there is a hot dog stand at the fair when you are bringing up your DC to be vegans: they are going to encounter things and people that mummy and daddy are fucking precious about disagree with every now and again.

The comments on here about why the armed forces shouldn't be at these events is exactly why it is a good idea that they are - to educate people that they are not only about war and killing people!!!!

I think its fine- indeed important- for them all to be there. Whilst I can see upset over Iraq etc with the forces thats a political issue- the soldiers themselves and the forces exist to defend us and assist in crises: they're as much part of the community as the other services.

And even if it were for recruitment- which it isn't- if my sons joined the emergency services I'd be so very proud! Worried of coursebut proud.

Don't know how i'd feel abouth the forces but thats because i'd be sitting terrified each time theres a conflict, every country needs a defence force.

Yes, definitely ok to have emergency services, not so keen on armed forces.

Emergency services form a vital part of the community - so it is good to build relationships between them and the community. School fairs are an ideal way of doing that.

I had ds1's 4th birthday party at a fire station! It was fantastic - they played on the fire engine, played with the hoses and had a big water fight.

The Armed Forces are a a vital part of the community too, or would you like us to go and live out of sight somewhere and only come out when convenient for you?

Which part of the police would you like to have there - they have Armed response units - or are you so not so keen on them either? The whole point of the Armed Forces is that they are defensive. Perhaps if you actually tried talking to people in the Forces you'd get a truer picture of what they are about than the stereotypes that people seem keen to perpetuate on here.

The reason that I would not like the armed forces at a school event is that they have a long history of recruiting - particularly in disadvantaged areas (fact - they visit "working class" schools far more often than "middle class" ones) and the fun, thrills and spills side shown at this sort of events gives boys (is particular) a very skewed view of Service life. I realize that they will not be overtly recruiting in a primary school, but they will be sowing the seeds. The emergency services are awareness raising - there is an additional element with the Armed Services which I find worrying.

Why does the MOD mandate a community presence?
Why do they need PR?
Because lots of people are uneasy about the way they are used, of course.
I'm sure it's much more fun helping kids up climbing walls than being shot at. So be an outdoor educator. Recent history shows that the armed forces aren't defensive- or at least not of the people who pay for them.

I know DH has to fend off recruitment drives from the army in his job. He doesn't sit easy with the way they repeatedly target areas of high unemployment, low income and low academic achievement- it can appear very cynical.

That said, if there isn't a recruitment element,I can't see a problem with it- the armed services are part of our society and children will be interested.

I would have not problem with police / fire services etc being there. They are part of a child's everday life and community and it's important that children see them in a positive light and learn what they do and how they can help them. Having been in the police myself, I really can't see many police officers wanting to use such an event to try to recruit people. In fact when I was in the police (left 7 years ago) most cops were more than happy to tell people that the job was 'farked'
I'd be less happy with the armed services being there, not because I'm anti-forces but because they are less part of a child's immediate community and the reason for them being there would be most obviously for recruitment, which is not appropraite for a school or family event imho.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being at a school fair - kids love seeing them all.

I used to take the kids I cared for to the Royal Tournament each year, we all loved it. Never once did I see any recruiting going on with the kids.

I think its a great idea for the emergency and armed forces to have a presence at family events.

i think it a fine thing and will maybe help today's youth to have more respect for those services, especially the fire and ambulance service who take so much physical and verbal abuse in the day to day carrying out of their jobs.

The police have a much bigger community presence around these days as well so that can only ba agood thing I think, for the reasons stated here already.

I'm not sure about the army though, although I couldn't put my finger on why exactly.

The Armed Forces work for the Ministry of DEFENCE, not Offense, and what do you mean not defensive of the people who pay for them? You didn't agree with stopping the genocide in Kosovo then? You wanted the IRA to blow up civilians on the UK mainland and Gibraltar? You disapprove of the humanitarian help given after natural disasters by the RN for example? The battle of Britain and the Battle of the Atlantic spring to mind as well, as does the Falklands.

'they are less part of a child's immediate community and the reason for them being there would be most obviously for recruitment, which is not appropriate for a school or family event imho.' How can you say that? Where do you think service personnel and their families live - in a bloody ghetto? The vast majority of the service personnel I know own their own homes - and guess what? We live in local communities, our kids attend local schools, we use local businesses, we pay Council Tax, we are part of the local community. The wives have jobs locally, so we are a part of the child's immediate community. The Forces may be at an event because they are part of a local community, or affiliated with one. They are raising awareness too - when my dh is in uniform he gets mistaken for an airline pilot; he's a nuclear submariner. They need to do PR because the public don't recognise them, as the Armed Forces have kept their heads down and got on with their jobs as always.

It's ok for the fire service to be there, but not the Armed Services?

So if the Fire Service go on strike again and the military have to cover for them, will they be accepted at public functions then?