I thought this was very interesting - you can't be a sweet cucumber in a vinegar barrel

[hunkermunker]

Just in general, really

Very true statement
The sites you look at amaze me, I only ever shop and mumsnet

"Any situation that makes you anonymous and gives permission for aggression will bring out the beast in most people. "

so that's mumsnet explained then.

But seriously, very interesting. I saw a documentary on genocide and the narrator, can't remember who, ended almost in tears, saying (after lots of analysis of the Balkans, Rwanda etc) 'I always thought I would be the one who never would do such a thing. But now I think I might. And that is a very hard admission to make'

Guy talks sense.

he looks like fagin!

Love the quote

I remember reading about the prison experiment before now...thanks for the reminder about his work and that interesting link. I think Zimbardo's theories make a lot of sense too.

I loved the bit about the car - in one neighbourhood it got stripped bare and in another, it was looked after.

We are all responsible for society - if we want the world to be a better place, we need to make it so. I do hope that doesn't sound preachy - it's not meant to.

Yes, there is a lot of truth in what he says. But dont lets forget the bad apples who create the bad barrels in the first place.

Long read but definitely worth it, immensely insightful stuff.

What a fascinating website, bookmarked for future reference.

Also, there are people who are not bad apples because they either fight against the prevailing atmosphere in the barrel (disagree that it is not possible to be a sweet cucumber, just it is harder thats all), or leave it altogether.

I thought I recognised the name - the Stanford prison experiment was stunning.

starlight; yes, I understood the same. I just dont think I agree with it, the more I think about it. It seems a nice way to duck responsibility (wasn't me, miss, it was the bad situation!).

Good people come out of bad situations, because they CHOOSE to take a different path. And others choose to sit back and let the bad things happen, or actively encourage them.

Having a deep day Hinker?

That's exactly the fascinating insight at the heart of the piece:

We like to think that a majority of people are inherently good and would do the right thing in those kind of situations.
The chap is arguing very convincingly that we are deluding ourselves.
The vast majority of people are quite capable of accommodating or even actively engaging in morally reprehensible acts
if you put them in an environment characterised by anonymity and unaccountability.

starlight, no, it is something that we should all do. I find it shocking that people should consider giving up their responsibility, because they "don't have" the needed strength.
The big religions try to set out a framework of rules to help people along the right path. We really should not abandon this principle!

daddyj, yes. I always am conscious, that the decendants of witch-burners still live in the UK (am not going to mention a certain popular newspaper!).
However, we should be aware of what we SHOULD do. Just to give up and accept evil as inherent cannot be right.

but starlight, surely that is just giving in to bad? Do you not seek something better than the worst?

That comes close to what many old people say "its ok to be racist, because when I was young, everyone was racist and we thought it was OK"

Not true. you never have a situation where everyone agrees that bad things are OK. Someone always questions them. eg in the 18th century, there were people in the UK campaigning against slavery in the US, at a time when the apathetic accepted it as the norm.

It is NOT ok just to drift along with the majority - eveyone has a moral duty to ask themselves if things are right or wrong. And confusing the issue by saying that we cant define right and wrong, is just a fudge.

How about this as a principle: allowing others to do bad things is as bad as doing them yourself.

starlight, I did not say that all racists are evil. I said that people have a moral duty to question whether things are right or wrong.

If people question, and come up with an answer like that racism is OK, or torturing prisoners is OK, then I would suggest that the original article is disproved - the people are of their own free will choosing bad things.
Slight disclaimer that our environment influences us to some extent (eg they may not have all the information necessary to make an informed choice).

I have spent some time and effort in my life on the things that you mention. But I have also taken the option of quitting situations where I felt I was part of one of the author's "bad barrels."
An important part, is also KNOWING that you are doing something bad, even if you are powerless to leave or change the bad barrel.