Blue Badge Parking Fees

[SPAP]

After overwhelming opposition, Bromley Council has decided to reverse its plans to introduce Blue Badge parking fees in its car parks. Our objections were based on the fact that it must be an unfair proposal, if able-bodied people have the choice to walk or cycle to their destination and pay nothing, while Blue Badge holders have to park (due to their disability) and under the plan, pay.

We're aware that many other councils charge and would urge other members of the public to object. It's the principle of Blue Badge holders paying more then able-bodied people, as well as the cost. We are hoping that our success can be replicated nationally and that ultimately Blue Badge holders will not have to pay anywhere in the country.

I’m glad you asked this! I was very surprised to see this “statistic”?

A large % of the population in general are poor. Should they also get free parking? Many people live too far from shops and towns to be able to walk there. Where do we draw the line? The blue badge is there to help - it gives those that need it the ability to park in many more places, often much closer, to make things easier. If needed then there are benefits to help support the extra costs of being disabled. Some businesses and authorities go further, but they’re not obliged to. Giving 5% of the population the right to free parking means that the money has to come from somewhere. In private car parks that will mean higher costs for non blue badge holders, who are equally likely to have low disposable incomes. In public car parks it will come from cutting other services. There is no free solution, and there is no magic money tree.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

Interestingly if you compare the number of cars on the road (32 million), not population, to the number of blue badges (2.6m according a PP) then you are at about 9%…

Agree to disagree

Very well said.

NO!

Many will not get a BB for mobility, because the criteria are so strict. Many areas will only give out for the mandatory criteria, which includes being able to walk a maximum of 50m.

Paradoxically, that means if you park in a BB space at Tesco, using that criteria you wouldn't even be able to walk around the shop, as 50m is about 1 and a half aisles. Wouldn't even get you to the cafe. About half of the BB parking spaces are more than 50m away from the entrance (more of use for wheelchair users that are potentially less limited on distance).

50m is 30-60 seconds of walking. There is an absolute CHASM of abilities to walk between being able to do 75m and run a marathon.

In your opinion, other opinions are available. We find the scheme a very good balance.

OP you talk about your diziness and your falls, you also talk about driving your DD into town. Should you be driving?

You also have to consider that a blue badge can be used in more than one car. My husband has a car and I have a car, sometimes we use his and sometimes we use mine.

That’s a good point.. so perhaps the 10% number is about right? Indeed, there are 28 or so million households in the UK, which ties in.

Is there any evidence that blue badge holders have less disposable income than the general population of car owners I wonder? For those on benefits, I expect there is, but a blue badge is not means tested and so I am not sure it’s safe to draw the conclusion that most blue badge holders are poor. I expect that their income distribution broadly follows that of car owners in general, but I’d be interested in any data on this.

Is there any evidence that blue badge holders have less disposable income than the general population of car owners I wonder?

Disabled people as a whole do. As I mentioned in a pp, Scope’s latest disability price tag research says on average disabled households need an additional £1,010 per month to have the same standard of living as non-disabled households. This is in addition to disability benefits such as PIP or DLA. Scope say if the figure is adjusted for inflation that would be £1,067 per month.

This is precisely what I pointed out on page 1 or 2 of this thread . It’s a pointless exercise . @SPAP basically started the thread so that everyone could go ‘well done ‘ and it didn’t quite work out that way so she has just argued that she is right and the rest of us are wrong .

I don’t think the point of a blue badge is to have free parking. Surely the BB is equitable to you in that it gives you the most accessible parking spots. And inequitable in that for some people who need it it won’t. eg I was temporary disabled for three months when I ruptured my Achilles tendon. No way did I qualify for a blue badge so that I could be driven to an accessible parking space so that I could get on with my life, much as you have the right to do.
Money needs to be addressed through a different agency.

I think we need to be clear about the argument for why BB holders should get free parking.

Is it because it's discriminatory to make them pay when they don't have other valid options? If this is the argument then lots of other people living rurally without god public transport links could argue the same so why do they have to pay?

Is it because BB holders are poorer than other drivers? Disabled households may be poorer than the average but many of them won't qualify for a BB, how is this fair on them? There is absolutely non guarantee that BB holders are poorer than other disabled or no disabled people? Many households in the UK are in poverty and they still have to pay.

My point is there isn't really a reasonable argument as to why BB parking should be free whilst everyone else pays. This kind of thing stirs up resentment and accusations of entitlement begin to emerge as it can't be justified in any rationale way.

Yes I know, but that’s why I asked about blue badge holders compared to other car owners….

I don’t think the averages thrown around by the likes of Scope are helpful though, because the range is so wide. The set both false expectations in the minds of those in need, and misrepresent the median requirement. I am sure they have the data. I wonder why they don’t publish that as well? My late husband was chronically ill and disabled, but day to day costs were only a few thousand a year more I think. Definitely not £1,000 a month, albeit he died 5 years ago. Whereas someone requiring 24 hour a day care will require tens and tens of thousands a week in support.

I am not sure why you have quoted me here. My post was purely about disabled people’s costs in comparison to non-disabled households in relation to another poster’s post. I didn’t comment on anything else relevant to your post.

Although comparing those living rurally rather ignores the fact they can move (even if it is difficult to move) whereas moving wouldn’t make a disabled person not disabled.

Ouch! So much negativity and nastiness on this site. What we achieved in Bromley was not (and I have never claimed it was) entirely down to me. It was a huge team effort, particularly by a group of disabled, Blue Badge holders, for whom it would have a major, detrimental effect.

We were supported by both a. Bromley Conservative and Labour MP - both wrote to the Council to state they opposed the policy - many Councillors from every political side, journalists and general members of the public who could all see that this policy was unfair.

Our hope and aim is to achieve this nationally and the MPs may be supportive of this. We have follow-up meetings with them.

As you will have gauged by now, I find it very difficult to understand many of the comments on here - people claiming that other people have aches and pains too, who don’t have Blue Badges and therefore Blue Badges holders should have to pay; that it’s negative to call Blue Badges holders ‘the most vulnerable in society’ etc. etc

As someone has stated, Mumsnet really doesn’t seem to be the kind of supportive site (and I don’t mean because some people don’t agree with me - it’s the tone of the replies) I thought it was and I will stop my posts.

Not everybody who has a BB is in receipt of 'disabled benefits'.

They do publish more in-depth data. It is there for all to see in their reports if you wish to read it. The figure I mentioned is the headline figure.

Sorry I was referencing your post for the second part of my post. I should have been more clear.

I think the moving from a rural area argument is really weak. We can't all live in built up areas and there are lots of important jobs that need to be done in rural areas. For as long as this is the case then there will always be a need for people to live rurally and therefore there will be people that can't just walk or cycle into town. There are also lots of people that do live in towns or cities that wouldn't qualify for a BB but also couldn't realistically manage the walk/cycle into town. It is impossible to house everyone so close to the town centre that this wouldn't be an issue.

I think OP is being unfair, re the nastiness, (and mn can be extremely helpful and caring to the disabled and especially sn children re advice and guidelines, so yo label mn as anti disabled is a stretch) , this thread is actually a very interesting debate.
It's complicated because BB covers a wide variety of needs. I agree with @ADifferentSong that it might be best if the monetary side is dealt with separately.

Comparing living rurally to be disabled, IMO, demonstrates a lack of understanding. You obviously feel differently, which is, of course, completely fine.

I think this thread is supportive of those with disability, and with the physical challenges that some disabled people have to deal with. Many of us have experienced it either directly because it’s affected us or our families, or through friends and colleagues. But my late husband would have been offended to be categorised as “the most vulnerable in society” as would friends and colleagues. Yes, I am sure some people with disabilities are. But you shouldn't assume that everyone with a blue badge is. That in itself is stereotyping, yet you refuse to acknowledge that which is a shame. Support should be targeted not broad brush to be most effective.

It's not meant to be a comparison in terms of suggesting the experiences are the same but more highlighting that OP's point that only BB holders are unable to choose to walk or cycle into a town centre is completely wrong. You don't even need to be living particularly rurally for someone to struggle to walk or cycle the kinds of distances required to access local centres. It is completely misleading to suggest otherwise.