FAITH SCHOOLS! If you don't agree with them, step this way, my dears.

[onebatmother]

What can be done?

It seems to me that many of us don't agree with them, and some of us (not I) are quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs.

Could we not start a movement?

It's all so wrong, really, isn't it?

Here are some people trying to do something about it. Perhaps we should get in touch with them.

Well said, zog, by the way.

Onebatmother, I'm attempting to go back a bit to your original question.

I'm not keen on faith schools, but I'm particularly unhappy about current government policy and legislation in this area - which is for new "state" schools set up to be run by almost anyone who can put up the cash - and in particular for the schools to either be faith or business run schools. My local Council - Labour hanging on to a slim majority for the time being and a sharp east west socio-economic divide which is reflected in elected councillors' political affiliations - actually did decide with strong local support and won the right to set up a new community school against the faith school bids. The civil servants and governments' reaction was to insist the Council considers privatising 5 of its children's centres.

What those of you who don't like faith schools need to be doing is, where there are plans to set up new schools, to campaign that those should be new community schools.

Another objection to some faith schools, I know a guy who clearly has a Catholic upbringing though he's quite lapsed who told me that the Catholic schools in his area which were any good required a letter from a priest saying that they were a good family etc, had the right background. Single parent family children generally lost out on the chance to get into this school.

I understand what you're saying Sobernow, and agree that it's something that's wrong with faith schools, though I'm more concerned by the ability of such schools to discriminate and maintain social divisions in a religious disguise.

IorekB - That's interesting that link. But they are campaigning for a blanket comprehensive admissions process at all state funded schools. I'm not sure everybody who objects to faith selection will object to ability selection.

I know I am like a broken record on this subject, but it seems to me that just about everyone who has contributed to this thread is in agreement about one thing and one thing only: that faith schools should not be allowed to select according to the religion of the parents.

So if we are going to use the collective power of Mumsnet to get anything done, surely this is the place to start.

Thank you Swedes - good thing someone read it.

OK we'll go it alone.

Sobernow, I would guess that most religious people don't think their faith is superior to others tbh. I think that position is reserved for fanatics isn't it?

I really can't face reading the whole thread as it's long and it's late in the day but I wholeheartedly disagree with the concept of faith schools on the following grounds:

• those of us without faith have fewer schools to choose from and this is not fair (especially in a borough such as mine where the majority of primaries seem to be faith schools and the best ones pretty much all are)
• splitting children into schools from their own faith groups is divisive for society.

Christians all with Christians, Jewish children with Jewish children, muslims all with muslims etc. A very bad idea and not what society needs right now.

I apologise if I am repeating points already made on here.

Now in terms of what could be done about this...has anyone ever claimed they are being discriminated on the grounds of lack of religion when applying for school places. Perhaps a test case at the European Court of Human Rights?

Onebat/Iorek We could ask mumsnet for a poll. The wording would have to be bloody good though.

IB, I agree with you. For me, there is no difference between a school being run by a church of whatever religion and one being sponsored by a business as long as there is no selection other than by catchment.

I guess for me where I live, church = community. The local church runs or supports all the really unsexy stuff like day centres for OAPS, playgroups for SN children etc etc. I am not religious in the slightest but am quite happy that the church provides a little social glue in my increasingly fragmented town.

I'm also very surprised that so many people are so worried about their children being indoctrinated into religion at school. Have more faith in yourselves! My stock answer for all questions on any religion is "yes, some people believe that". I don't think singing "Lord of the Dance" is going to make my children evangelical Christians.

I don't believe that is necessarily true, sobernow. This isn't the place for a big theological discussion, but religion is as much about culture as belief. It is perfectly possible to be religious, but to recognise that the form that your religion takes is a product of your cultural history, and that while other religions may be alien to you, they are not wrong or of less value.

Good link Iorek - but personally, I'm fine with selection by ability.

Just not on selection re: parental superstition &/or willingness to lie about it.

I think it's a separate issue, really.

I agree, zog.

Yes, raven, Swedes has already brought this up. I googled then didn't read the link properly. Sorry. We'll have to form our own campaign.

Well we're still all agreed on the selection issue at least.

There are many adults who attended religious schools who are well rounded individuals
Please don't assume all MNers are anti faith schools

No, tinylady, we couldn't possibly. I'm not for one. But how do you feel about the selection processes?

sorry Iorek...me being too slow & x posting with Swedes

(cool name btw )

Ta, no my fault.

Our local C of E primaries have no selection by faith. This makes the incongruity of Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Jews, etc all attending a school where they are preached at by the local Christian churches.
I don't understand, if you are to campaign against selection by faith, then why are you not against faith state schools?