Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

FAITH SCHOOLS! If you don't agree with them, step this way, my dears.

482 replies

onebatmother · 04/04/2008 00:12

What can be done?

It seems to me that many of us don't agree with them, and some of us (not I) are quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs.

Could we not start a movement?

It's all so wrong, really, isn't it?

OP posts:
Blu · 04/04/2008 17:44

Swedes - ok, fair enough.

I agree that taxpayers money not being used exactly pro rata for each facility it supports is compleytely acceptable.

I can see that there is an argument for state fnded faith schools a la Blunkett as long as everyone can have one.

BUT I don't think that state funded state schools should be allowed to exclude or discriminate. I can see an argument for a wide diversity of provision - but not that that provision should then be exclusive.

SO - for those who like the Blunkett model of faith-schools for all faiths, you MIGHT also sanction faith buses. But my argument would then be the same - the faith buses should not refuse to carry faithless passengers, IF they receive state funding.

In a democracy the principle should be that the money can only be used if it is applied in an equal opportunities way.

As I say below - I would phase them out. But in the (very important) interests of respect and diversity I would allow religious clubs and societies within the school. So if children wanted to go to Prayer Groups in thier lunch hour that would be cool. Religion would not be BANNED.

Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 17:45

fiodyl, I'm glad you posted that since people were claiming that religion isn't about that. I don't think such statements should ever go unchallenged since readers may assume we all accept that as true.

The fact that many 'christians' do not kill unbelievers is beside the point.

Are the christians here saying that bible quotes are offensive?

madamez · 04/04/2008 17:45

Fiodyl: I have encountered the hymn-singing at M&T groups, and stopped going to one group because it was peddled too forcefully for my liking. Where I live there are achoice of groups, but it is very common for them to be tied in with a church. WHich is all very well unless it's the only M&T group around, gets funding from the council etc but is still pushing one brand of superstition at parents and kids...

Blu · 04/04/2008 17:46

nametaken - who are you calling a pratt?

fiodyl · 04/04/2008 17:47

ok so maybe the majority of people who go to faith schools do not follow this advise that is in their 'good book' but i dont really want a school that teaches it because of the small minority that may take its teachings literally

Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 17:47

Blu, I'd have no problem with lunchtime prayer groups any more than lunchtime chess clubs or whatever so that's fair enough.

nametaken · 04/04/2008 17:48

not you so don't worry about it

fiodyl · 04/04/2008 17:49

and btw the title of this thread was 'FAITH SCHOOLS:If you dont agree with them step this way'
So if you do agree with them why are you here?

harpsichordcarrier · 04/04/2008 17:49

By nametaken on Fri 04-Apr-08 16:31:41
the only reason people want to abolish faith schools is because their child wasn't offered a place at one.

"If I can't have it, I don't want anyone else to have it"

A nasty unpleasant attitude IMO.

blimey, projecting, much?

I want to abolish faith school for sound principled reasons and it is a pretty cheap and nasty and petty suggestion that says more about you than about the people campaigning against faith schools.

as it happens dd1 goes to a CofE school.
as it happens.

Swedes · 04/04/2008 17:50

Blu - The only problem I see with faith schools is that people lie and pretend in order to get their child a place. I don't see how that is the fault of the faithful - so why are we seeking to undermine Christians?

Blu · 04/04/2008 17:51

nametaken - don't care if it was me (didn't think it was) but this is all tetchy enough without direct personal insults.

De-acidify yourself and offer a counter argument to the discussion.

Swedes · 04/04/2008 17:52

I am not a Christian by the way.

libidoless · 04/04/2008 17:52

Sorry, nametaken - I wasn't clear in my post. I meant the thread was about the politics of faith schools and not faith as such. I don't think there is any point in any of us kicking each others heads in over our particular religious beliefs or non-beliefs. Surely pointless - and probably quite likely to offend.

MadamePlatypus · 04/04/2008 17:52

Re: the Arts Council, 50% of primary schools in my area are not saying that whilst some different people like impressionist painting and some different people like ballet, WE the school and your teacher believe that the only worthwhile art created was by Tracey Emin, and we will sing songs about this every day in assembly.

To be honest, I don't think I would be as bothered about faith schools if there was a choice about going to one - as has been mentioned before on this thread (but seemingly ignored by some), the only choice for many is to

  1. Send your child to a state school
  2. Arrange for transport to the nearest undersubscribed school (even if this is in the next county)
  3. home educate.
TheFallenMadonna · 04/04/2008 17:52

And I have a religious faith yet disagree on priciple and choose not to send my child to one. Go figure.

nametaken · 04/04/2008 17:53

Fiodyl - you mean you don't like faith schools exluding people that disagree with their POV but you'd like to exclude me because I disagree with your POV.

Greyriverside · 04/04/2008 17:55

Who wanted to exclude you nametaken? you can be as religious as you want. Why does it have to be in school?

fiodyl · 04/04/2008 17:55

nametaken called me a pratt for quoting parts of the bible that i think most christians try to pretend arent there.
which raises another point- why do they subscribe to a religion that they quite blatently dont believe in? maybe it is because they were indoctrinated into it at a young age and do not know any other way?

nametaken · 04/04/2008 17:55

thanks libidoless but I haven't kicked anyone's head in over their particular beliefs.

Twas another.

MadamePlatypus · 04/04/2008 17:55

um, should have said

  1. send child to faith school.

Rather lost the point of my argument there...

Blu · 04/04/2008 17:59

Swedes - I'm not seeking to undermine Christians. I'm very happy for Christians to do their Christian thing. But ideally, in a secular democracy I think that state supported education should be open to all, have the same admission criteria, and be secular in it's foundation. Christian (and muslim) schools are in effect, state-suported religion. I thik there should be an absolute and clear distinction between the state and religion.

I wouldn't go as far as France and ban any religious activity or identification - that seems to me to be an infringement of the individual's rights.

Blu · 04/04/2008 18:02

I knew what you meant, MdameP!

libidoless · 04/04/2008 18:03

sorry nametaken - got all confused there for a minute! i know it wasnt you

fiodyl, i don't think you know enough about christianity to talk about it in this way. it's offensive. and really not relevant ...

Swedes · 04/04/2008 18:06

Blu - I wouldn't normally mention it, but are you sure "it's foundation" ?

libidoless · 04/04/2008 18:09

Onebat. sorry for the hijack - it has got a little inane and wasnt what you wanted (altho you knew it was coming!)

i'm off now - cauliflower cheese and brimstone really is calling