Tricky situation with Mum's housemate...........

[Earlybird]

My father died about 25 years ago, and a few years after that a (female/divorcee) friend of Mum's moved into the house as a roomate. 'Jan' never paid rent, though she did split household utility bills with Mum, and bought a new fridge when the old one broke. She was a great friend to Mum, and also a huge help/support during the past couple of years as Mum's health deteriorated with cancer. I don't know what we (or Mum) would have done without her.

Mum died 2 months ago, and 'Jan' has continued to live in the house rent free. We offered 'Jan' a very good price to buy the house, but she declined and has bought a house closer to her children. She will be moving to her new house by the end of April (money not an issue, as 'Jan' is financially comfortable).

All of us (Mum's children) talked and agreed that, if she was interested, we wanted 'Jan' to have some of the furniture in the house - either as a gift for her to use in her new home, or at a token price. We had not told Jan of our intentions.

My sister went to the house this weekend to talk to 'Jan' about her plans. My sister was astounded as 'Jan' walked around the house pointing out the furniture she intended to take to her new home (most of it was Mum's furniture that was in the house when 'Jan' moved in 20 years ago). We have not offered it to her yet, but clearly she believes she is 'entitled' to it. (Some of it is nice/normal stuff, and some is very nice stuff that would interest an antique dealer.) This has taken us completely by surprise.

WWYD?

I know it's a long one, but would appreciate thoughts from those who can wade through...

Did nobody have a conversation with her about this? I guess you didn't know she was going to go do this? What a nightmare.

I would maybe talk to a lawyer about mediation or something? What a difficult situation, you must be so upset and torn and uncertain.

None of you know her children?

Sorry you're having to deal with this horrible situation. IME most things can be sorted out through dialogue - communication is key. You sound absolutely honourable and reasonable; however she can't know what you want or are thinking unless you tell her.

One thing - if I'd shared a house with someone for 20 odd years, used the furniture, pots & pans, garden tools and everything else together, and my housemate died, I would consider all those things mine.
She's not thinking about passing them onto the next generation - you - because she's still using them.

So you have to tell her. (Nicely, of course, but I know you will. You sound lovely!

NQC - we had no idea this is what Jan intended to do. She has been vague (evasive?) when asked about her plans to move.

My sisters have met Jan's children (my first time was at Mum's funeral), but any socialising/entertaining that Mum & Jan did kept the two families separate - so there is no established communication/relationship between us.

Oh dear...

I think I would find a way to tell her how much you would love certain things as keepsakes - the chirstmas ornaments, the recipe box, your dad's sword, and anything else - ask her for them, but forget about the rest.

But find a way to keep a grip of the valuable furniture that is in the house.

Surely you don't have to be an executor to approach her and ask for certain special itmes? You can ask as your Mum's daughter.

What sort of degree of alcholism are we talking about here? I mean, is it possible she was vague because she just didn't know?

What a complete nightmare. You do have to talk to her, but what a complete nightmare.

It's totally understandable that she sees a lot of this stuff as hers, but it's also clear that you have rights too.

Is it possible to come at the whole thing assuming the best possible intentions? Let's just assume that she didn't know when she would move, and she just asked her sons to take all the stuff? And she didn't realise, and may not have yet realised that she took things she had no right to? So could you come at her assuming it was a misunderstanding, and play it that way?

So that way, you don't go into it in a heightened state, and, even if it wasn't a misunderstanding, maybe she can play it that way to save face?

Does money come into any of this? (And are you sure there was nothing more to their relationship?)

It's also probably worth noting that, well ... if your mum ever had an unkind word to say about her children, she would have said it to Jan ...

I would make a list of all the things she's taken that you specifically wanted and feel thta she had no right to (e.g. the sword) and write to her / call her and ask for them back. If she refuses then I'd involve the police.

Oh, and change the locks on the old house in case she goes back for more.

tearinghairout - I absolutely see your point about how Jan can consider household items 'hers' after living with them/using them for so long. I would expect that if Mum had remarried or had a new dp, that he might consider household contents 'his' after such a long time - but this was not a romantic relationship. As a longterm housemate/friend, is it reasonable for Jan to make the same assumptions that might be made by a dh/dp?

Jan moved into a fully furnished/equipped house - and brought very little with her because very little was needed. As much as Mom/we benefitted from Jan's presence, Jan benefitted too as she lived rent free for over 20 years (she contributed half of utility costs each month).

Since Mum's death, Jan has stated she intends to take certain items in the house because she 'bought' them and therefore they 'belong' to her (fridge, coffee table etc). On that basis, doesn't it follow that she should then leave behind things that she didn't 'buy'? For example - should she take the beautiful decorative glass cannisters I gave to Mum for Christmas a few years ago? Should she take the bulk of Mum's 'good' china that was given as a wedding gift many years ago?

Perhaps it's also worth saying here (repeating?) that Jan is financially secure, so is perfectly able to provide for herself.

I don't want to argue about any of this. But am amazed at Jan's behaviour. It's such a mess.

I think I would ring the police and report them missing, then ring you solicitor, then ring and "Jan" and explain there are things missing from the house that had been allocated to people with agreement of all the benefactors in the will. I would try and list everything that has gone and then a seperate list of what you would like back (presumably quite short).

I think you do have to pursue it, or else change the looks so "Jan" can't back in and take anything else!

I can see both sides.

I can see how Jan had a relationship with your mum, even if it wasn't a dh/dp type relationship.. they lived together for 25 years. Surely that has to count for something?

Maybe Jan thinks that as she has lived in the house half her life that she is entitled to the furniture the way a dh/dp would be?

But I can also see it from your POV where you wanted to choose what to keep of your mums belongings.

I know if it were me (And it's not!) I would tell her you want a chance to look over what she has taken & pick some things to keep, but I wouldn't worry about furniture etc.... after all, the woman nursed your mother through 5 years of a horrific illness.

She is the one who was there with her at night when she went to bed & when she got up in the morning. I'd say Jan knew your mother extremely well after living with her for so long... and if, as you say, you were away for so long, maybe she sees the furniture/items as being payback for looking after a sick woman when her relatives were too far away to visit as often as they would have liked?

I know when dhs gran was ill I nursed her, I stayed with her & I got up in the night when she was crying out in pain.... I washed her clothes, I drove her to appointments, I wept with her when she wanted to take an overdose so it would 'all be over'. Then when she died all these cousins of dhs came to the house looking for a 'reminder' of her..... Oh, yes, here's a pic of you & her at your christening...that must have been the last time you saw her!!

It is an old fashioned thing to give the contents of your house to your daughter perhaps that is what Jan was told. If there are specific things you would each like then I do think you should pursue it, it's only the fact that Jan has been very evasive that makes be a bit suspicious???

Contact your solicitor and change the locks on the house.

It's awful that it's come to this, but I can't agree with the suggestions about the police etc. There is no doubt that she was a dear friend so it must be handled gently whatever you do.

The alcholism won't help. I have some experience with this and how vague someone can be and how tricky to explain your position without being heavy handed. I wish I had more constructive suggestions to make.

I'm not soft if I feel I'm being used, but I think I'd prefer to look back on this time without having to feel any conflict about how Jan was treated. What I'm saying is do what will make you feel more comfortable in the long run.

Earlybird, can you tell Jan what you've told us?

• You like her and are grafetul for all she did for your mum

• You understand that she is grieving

• You are concerned that things are missing and there is no mention of these things being left to her in the will.

• You wanted her to have many of the things she has taken but that you were hoping to sort through it all yourselves and keep what was of sentimental value.

• And maybe even that you are all a little upset that she has just taken things. Especially when you would gladly have given them to her, had she asked.

• You would prefer to sort this out amicably

I think it may be nice to give her the chance to give things back although, she has in effect stolen from you so is perhaps unlikely to return the items without being pressured.

I do think changing the locks and informing a lawyer is important.

I can't understand why you are so annoyed though, if you say you would gladly have given them to her if she had've asked.

Perhaps she considered the furniture as her own, seeing as she lived in the house longer than any of you?

Dashing out, so will have to reply in a more thoughtful way when time is not short.

Jan was a housemate and not a spouse/dp. (Would a longterm housemate have the same 'rights' as a dp/spouse? Sad as it is, even the surviving partner of a romantic couple living together has almost no automatic legal rights if a death occurs.)

Jan has made huge assumptions that the bulk of the items were hers to take - but there is no supporting documentation or conversation from Mum to any of us.

Jan probably could have had 90% of what she wanted - if she had asked/or if there had been a discussion. She has taken some things that were not hers to take, and it is wrong. She has done it without asking, or even telling - she has simply done it, and we only discovered that fact when my sister entered the house prior to a showing.

No one wants to minimise Jan's role in Mum's life or 'cut her out', but we, as her daughters have a place too. I think we have been very badly treated, when it was always our intention to treat Jan well.

The more I think about this, the more surprised I am that she took so much and that she did it without asking. If she got on well with your other sisters, surely she would have known that they would let her keep some things that were important to her.

I think it is odd how she seems to have hastily taken things - she must have realised this would upset the family. Grieving can bring out the worst in people though. I do hope you can sort this out without too much hassle, EB.

A letter first is the best way, just asking for the few bits you wanted for sentimental reasons. No one can reasonably be upset by that.

My family had similar situation, though obv not the same as marriage was involved. My nan lived in her (council)home for 40 years bringing up my dad and his siblings there. G/dad died and nan remarried and her and her dh lived in the house until Nan then died and step-gdad lived there for a while. Council house obv passed onto him, and his grandson moved in with girlfriend. Grandson then bought the house from the council and sold it for over £100,000. Bits of family memorabilia got lost/left in all the dealings which upset dad and siblings but in the end they had same feelings as you - nan's dh really cared for her and took loads off their shoulders so they didnt feel they could say too much.

Thanks again for all thoughts - the opinions/perspectives offered here have helped me think things through. Have also calmed down.

Much of the situation seems to have been caused by little/no communication between Jan and middle sis (executor)about how Mum's possessions would be dealt with. We assumed Jan would act reasonably (at least by our definition), and Jan obviously assumed many of the house contents were hers to take.

All of us are upset at Jan's actions, but other sisters are taking approach of 'well, we're disappointed, but it's done now and what was it exactly that you wanted anyway? We can ask for it back'. That is very frustating to me in principal because we have been given no choice in the matter, and if I'm perfectly honest, I hate the lack of 'control' we've got over Mum's possessions.

But, short of locking Jan out of the house (changing locks) and/or legal action - I'm not sure what we can do now. I'm not sure I've got the time/energy/money to go to court over golf clubs, Christmas ornaments, cookery books, etc. The many other items (gardening tools, etc) probably would have been given to Jan anyway, or sold for not much.

It feels as if we've been 'robbed' by someone we know/trusted. But once I separate emotional upset from reality, I'm not sure it's worth the extreme/unpleasant measures we might have to take to get things back. And again, I make the point that many of the things we don't want/need, and would have given willingly/gladly to Jan.....if she'd only asked.

I can see exactly what has bothered you. I would feel the same.

Now if you were talking chairs/tables/microwave here, things that her and your mum used on a daily basis, i would feel a bit peeved that she took without asking, but let it go...she probably sees them as hers after all this time, as has been said already.

however, the little nick nacks, things like ornaments, xmas pressies from you all to your mum, cookery books are all totally different and most normal people wouldnot take these so why has she?

I would just come straight out with a list of the things you want, and give it her and not bother arguing about 'why take them' etc as bad feeling will ensue.

Just tell her what you want as you will seethe forever and regret not getting those items one day.