How would one bring up children with a sense of integrity

[Twiglett]

nowadays, do you think?

In what context?

Do you mean morality or something more encompassing than that?

Not entirely sure what you mean. But if you mean integrity in the sense that I would mean it, they need to develop their own strong sense of morality, not merely that of their parents. And be determined enough to stick with it through thick or thin. So contrary and stubborn Yep...mine have a sense of integrity already.

no I don't mean morality

I mean being principled, honest, truthful, trustworthy, fair and consistent

one can overlay any form of morality (which is more subjective) but to me integrity means strength of character to stick to what you believe in

to me integrity is a strong virtue and one I would like my children to have

Lead by example and talk about the decisions you can/do make and why.

"principled, honest, truthful, trustworthy, fair and consistent"

Isn't that morality then twig?

nope morality is a moving feast .. my morals could be totally different from yours

well IMHO

I really don't know Twig. Ds1 is very honest and truthful and has a massive sense of moral outrage if he uncovers injustice or learns of it (in a family situation or an international one!).

DS2 on the other hand will happily attempt to cheat and lie his way out of a situation. Sometimes he will even tell a lie for no particular reason!

Honesty and truthfulness is extremely important to me and dh, and ds2's attitude drives us nuts at times.

But I'm not sure they are generally characteristics of 'successful' people in the modern world, so maybe I should encourage him?

Same as Milliways, and encourage your child to feel able to discuss any problems they may be experiencing - try to be objective and offer alternatives or solutions.

dd and I have been doing a bit of this recently.

I agree with Twigletts definition. As Milliways say leading by example is a start.

I must now admit that DH & I both have a military background so feel very strongly about integrity and the whole ethos that it encompasses (ops, that sounds a bit OTT).

Would also include respect for others in the definition.

I agree - you have to lead by example. I don't know if that's enough though.

Well yes of course they could be. But sticking to them whatever they are is what integrity means.

Treat them with integrity and respect.

Problem with concepts such as "principled, honest, truthful, trustworthy, fair and consistent" is they will only be at an advantage if the society they live in adhere to these as well.

If you happened to live in Iraq under Saddamm for example, and especially be a member of the government, these qualities would very quickly have gotten you killed.

not sure that I want my children to 'get on' at the cost of their integrity

although I do, rather sadly, see what you are saying

Yes, I see what you mean twigs.

I would say though, that integrity also can be a moving feast. What is fair to one person may not be to another.

Nevertheless, I would say that treating them as you wish them to treat others is probably the most successful ways to encourage integrity.

However, growing up also means learning that things aren't always fair and consistent and being taught how to cope with this is also important. You know, the whole thing about humans are never without flaws and that we will always love you irrespective of what flaws you develop We might not like those flaws, but we will always love you.

Also that they should try and understand why others views of integrity is different from theirs rather than hold an arrogant view that their definition is always better!

Although not particularly religious myself, I do find that the 10 commandments are a good starting point for a community to operate with integrity. If you take out the obviously religious ones, that is.

I promise not to covet your ass soapy

Well for all its faults and the griping about our society I think it is still pretty great, especially in comparison to others around the world and I think you could do well with those qualities in it - I know many people that have.

These people tend to value themselves too and they are empathetic and inquisitive.

Spiniza's dictum is a good rule to live by - to try not to condemn but understand.

You could teach them the integrity of liberal democracy. It isn't perfect but it's the best form of governence there is and will give them a good solid base to tackle other ethical issues.

Perhaps get them to read lots of Chalet School books?

I think by having it yourself and showing that.

At least, that's how I learned.

I think Roisin is right that honesty, truthfulness etc. are not generally to be found in the most successful members of this society. I for one have certainly found myself losing out on things because I've not been prepared to walk all over others to get them. On balance though, I would much rather DS grew up to be an honest person with integrity than just play the game along with all the other sheep out there. I hope we're doing the right things to instil that in him.

what an indictment of the society we live in

"because I've not been prepared to walk all over others to get them"

Well exactly! Compassion and empathy is one of those things that some people seem to be able to discard when it suits them.

well, without really trying my son has all those qualities, he has lots of negative ones too.Anyhow, it actually hasn't done him too many favours , he is too sensitive and worries v easily, and ,is not seen as being tough enough..... so,it doesn't serve him paticularly well as a child but am sure it will when he is an adult.

"Compassion and empathy" (and I might add honesty) "is one of those things that some people seem to be able to discard when it suits them."

I thought of this thread today when we tried (and failed) to outbid the stupendously cynical pair of first time buyers who came and gazumped us on our house purchase (after we went to a closing date with several others and submitted the winning bid fair and square). Grrrr. I now believe even more strongly than before that integrity is a dying thing in our society.

Children need good role models and they need to learn from thir mistakes. It's no good if mummy and daddy are there to bail them out. If they suffer the consequences, they'll learn.