Does your partner's job require 100% domestic support (or does yours?) And have you (or they) retaining a grip on sanity??

[Domesticgodless]

Following on from my other thread, I have been thinking about people whose work is not only his life, but ends up being their partner's as well.

In that their hours are long and totally unpredictable, & when at home (or on holiday) they is constantly doing work related stuff, taking calls, etc. Who else apart from me is suffering this? Are you still sane?? Do you still feel you love your dp or has the job sucked the marrow out of your relationship?

I just heard from a female colleague of his who is freaking because she is about to have a baby and wants to keep her career going. Her dh is almost never home (City law firm partner) and she does not see how she is going to get a nanny to work the hours she needs- 7.30-8pm. So she is having to get 2 nannies, and will literally never see her child during the week.

Blueshoes posted about the wife of someone at her work (City law firm I think) saying that her husband's incessant long hours made her want to run screaming down the street.

Why is it now (sort of) routine and acceptable for a person's job to totally take over their life and require the services of a full time wife, housekeeper and (lone) mother, or a whole range of paid domestic workers to do the same job(s)?

And yet these same people are hardly living in luxury- the woman I referred to above cannot afford the live in nanny she really needs to keep her career going, because she can't afford a big enough house in London. She would move further out, but her dh will never get home at all (a common story I think).

My DH is a little bit guilty of this. He is self-employed and can never turn work down, even if he's doing mad hours travelling up and down the country (or abroad) on consecutive days. But then we had a tough time financially last year so need every penny he can earn. Luckily, after 7 years of coming home to chaos, he is pretty good about not demanding too much on the domestic front. I STILL find it all a bit much a lot of the time, but then I hate being at home surrounded by mess and just feel jealous of the many hours he doesn't spend in the house.

I read an interview with the editor of Vanity Fair last year. I think his name's Graydon Carter. He had been editor for yonks (15 years or more iirc) and said that he could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he had left work later than 5.30pm in all that time because he wanted to see his children when they were young. I thought that was just great. Can't be many more heavyweight jobs than editor of Vanity Fair can there?

bump. not my op but would like you to know about the editor of Vanity Fair.

I agree bk, brilliant insight from Anna re women being expected to excel at work and home.

My exH worked all the time, irregular hours, always taking calls, Holidays were impossible to book and never during the summer. I can't remember a meal where he wasn't on the phone, in fact at his mums 60th birthday in a restaurant he took calls, texted and finaly went outside and nearly missed the cake, did it at the christmas eve service too. Never did much at home with regards to domestic stuff, DIY or organising the kids. He was really like a lodger that was good with the kids.

His job has eaten him alive, I work for the same company so I do have an understanding as to what the job involves, but I am part-time and work a few shifts when it suits me. He has lain down and let the job walk all over him, so to relieve the stress he left me instead of the job and now moved in with GF.

I think that I created my own seperate life rather than his job taking over mine and pandering to him, my life was still crap though, but I was determined not to accept that it was OK for him to work like that.

good for you, scramble.

My dh's does. But he has retained his grip on sanity. I've made him. Whilst he leaves the house at 6:30am, 3 nights a week he is back by 6:45 and has 2 sacrosant hours without work. He does bath and bed with kids, exercises in gym and eats dinner. Then he starts working again. I think it's slightly easier than some in that he isn't at anybody elses beck and call outside of 9-5. He has to work outside those hours so that the days are free for actually seeing clients, but independantly, so we still have some control over his working hours. Whilst he may do 10-15 hours at the weekend to stay on top of stuff, he can and does fit it in around family commitments, and I always know in advance the nights he's going to be out/away.

That still sounds like loads of hours even though he may have control of them,

why do people work so many hours?

Daphneharvey, it would be lovely if more men (and women) could be home by 5.30pm, but the reality is that there really are very few 9-5 jobs in this day and age. DH works long hours and he works for an american firm, so due to the time difference late afternoon is his busiest period in the day.

But something does have to give, and it is our relationship. I still love him, but I've had to realise that the only day to day support I can have from him at the moment is really financial. But I'm not sure that the bargain we've made is faustian - more practical. I think it helps that we made the decision that I would give up work - he was perfectly happy to go down the buying in lots of domestic help route, and tbh when we had only one dd and were both working did his fair share of domestic duties. So whilst I might feel that my not working was the best choice of a range of imperfect options, it was somthing that circumstances forced rather than him forcing. And we both accept that his work must come first for the next 5-7 years as he is at the very top of his earning potential, and sacrifices now will mean he can retire very early and we will both reap the rewards of that.

In dh's case he (actually we) choose to work the hours because of the financial rewards and the freedom that will give us in the future. And in the sales role he's in, more hours does directly equal more sales, and more bonus. (For the last few years November and December have been wonderful as he's already maxed out his bonus so does actually stop working so hard).
I think it's the case in other jobs because as Anna said, if you don't do it, someone else will. And they will be rewarded for it. It's partly why I did leave my career - I'd spent many years being the person who worked 100 hour weeks and got the promotions and bonuses. Whe I had dd I saw quite clearly that whilst I could have still had a job, if I wasn't willing to give 120% to the firm I wasn't going to carry on moving up. And I wasn't prepared to accept stagnating.

'I have little life of my own and feel exhausted all the time. I feel quite resentful at times and our relationship has suffered enormously.

He is so driven I don't know how to stop him,'

gawd that is ringing an awful lot of bells.
(I am aware this kind of generalising may offend some women, just trying to put into words my very anecdotal & personal 'insights' if you can call them that)

I don't meet many women who are so driven I have to say (Xenia et al excluded). It is as if the 'all-round training' we get excludes that kind of singleminded obsessive pursuit of power, perhaps?

Once your partner is so overwhelmingly like that it kind of blocks you from even approaching the same level of 'drivenness'. For instance, I feel I am constantly fighting dh's career in its encroachment on all aspects of our life. He is quite happy to be contacted on holiday & on boxing day by solicitors etc. It is only me that gets p**sed off. I feel I end up having to ringfence off 'our time'.

It is also a constant fight to get holiday time etc. He cannot actually book a holiday outside August when the courts are shut. Well, he can, but there is no guarantee of him actually turning up I spent a holiday alone in France with ds1 aged 2, the worst of my life! I was on the phone to dh every day saying 'so are you coming tomorrow then?' Eventually the whole 2 weeks passed and he didn't make it. The judge had dragged the case out.

It affected him too. He came to meet us at the airport and was in tears when he saw ds1 again. No amount of money imho makes up for that kind of thing. But he won't/can't stop.

I know that I am not exactly the be all and end all of womanhood, but I am a feminist- I am 'ambitious' myself but it's more that I want space to write and read all the stuff I want to & establish a life for myself that will persist after the kids no longer need their parents so much. I am not in the least interested in power, control, status, in the way dh clearly is.

However, there are women in his chambers like the one I described in the OP and they feel just as driven as he is. They tend not to marry SAHD types of course.

I found the seething resentment to much to take. Perhaps it would have seemed better if he was the one that was driven and he was aiming for somehting, but he was being driven and didn't know where it was heading. His senior 20 years older than him does much the same hours, just cares less and I suppose he earns a bit more.

Quite glad that I am not hanging on in for that now. I am not prepared to put my life and the kids life on hold. I work a few hours and rely on tax credits to survive, my house is Ok and the kids are doing well. I could go and earn loads I suppose but I am concentrating on the kids for now, I have no desire to work my ass of so I can relax in 10 years time.

Funny I am studying for a degree in what my exH does, my degree is distance learning so I study when it suits me. Perhaps once the kids are grown up I will be earning more than exH in the same industry, without having been trod on for the past 10 years.

Life is for living, now!

my dh has long hours in a job that he likes but not fantastically paid. after a year really struggling we decided on this:

Commuting makes life hell so we will stay in our city centre flat instead of moving to a house further away.

I work from home but need good childcare every day and this is a priority.I cannot be with the baby all day on my own. And I only consider half the childcare costs to be mine, so working is still financially viable.

We both have jobs we enjoy, which makes the rest of the hassle worthwhile.

We have a cleaner and online shopping.

Ds still sleeping badly but I CANNOT get up with him every night. A few times a week, dh must do it or my brain stops working.

When we have a babysitter (and we are very lucky to have doting grandparents around) we ALWAYS go out as the two of us, even if it's just out for coffee down the road.

And yet I was still in tears last night, just out of tiredness. Good luck!

how old is ds oranges?

I find the nights when ds2 is teething or otherwise unsettled (he is 9m) to be the absolute worst. I hit rock bottom. Like you I work from home and tend to spend the day half asleep unable to do any of the things I need to like convert phD into articles etc (you really need sleep for your brain don't you).

On those days I think WO (and I) HMs have the worst of everything. There is no slack, no give in your life (please SAHMs don't feel I am disparaging you by saying this!!)

Also do you find if dh gets up, you are awake anyway? I am a v. light sleeper (probably due to being a chronic neurotic

ds is 20 months. i often half wake, but there is a huge difference between that and having to get out of bed and actually deal with it.

What childcare do you have? I used to have a nanny, but found that having ds at nursery for 3 half days is much better - i am productive in the mornings if he is out of the house, and i get a whole day's work done in that half session. The nursery is nearby and he's there for 5 hours and realistically i can't use my brain for longer than that in a day anyway.

the other two full days he is with mil, and i set up meetings and stuff for then. that mix, or some half and some full days, seems to work.
i have lunch and the rest after i pick him up.

We have a grand total of 3 nannies! (see other thread ad nauseam)!

1 for mon to wed who used to be our ft but then moved to Kent, so her travel is so awful she can't do more than that, though she wants to carry on working with us and I want the continuity for the boys.

Thurs/Fri our religiously observant new nanny- as of last week.

And since I have to commute to Stoke Wed and Thur, and dh can't get back, we now have nanny no. 3 doing those nights from 5- 9 or so!!! It's awful. I should be back at 9 on Thursday so at least I am here to see my boys on Friday morning (snivel! I do so miss them when I'm away)

okay, ditch all worries about continuity - the children will be fine and you seem to be prioritising the needs of the various nannies over your own.

Do you work from home when you are in London? If i were you, i'd use nursery for half sessions on monday, tuesday and friday and really concentrate then to work, and get a nanny to look after them wed and thurs. On the weekends, send dh off to the park with the children and catch up on any extra work you need to do.

And ditch the guilt - having a mum working from home part of the week makes up for two missed bedtimes a week.

You are really lucky in that you can afford to pay for an effective childcare solution, so find one!

sorry - that sounded tough - i'm interested in your situation because i'm doing something similar, with a much less well off dh!

My dh, is a lawyer too for a large global insurance company (not in the city) where he is also head of legal. He rarely if ever used to make dd's nativity plays at Christmas time, he has had to go in when he is meant to be on holiday, I could go on, but sounds familar to many people on this thread.

He now has a mobile phone for weekends and holidays so he can leave his work one at home otherwise he never gets any peace.

your idea about the nursery is interesting, oranges. Not sure I would get enough done in the half day (because I am a faffer) but it is definitely worth thinking about.

I consider dh to be paying for our wraparound childcare as he is the one requiring 100% domestic support. (God knows if it came out of my salary, it would be nursery only- but tht wouldn't be in London, & so would be affordable!)

I think I have taken probably too much on board all the stuff about them needing continuity from carers. Ds1 has seemed to get quite stressed on having any new carer and I feel bad about that (& annoyed with dh cos it never seems to be 'his problem')

both dh and i had working mothers, at a time when childcare and maternity leave were a joke. Yes, i preferred some childcare to others but that was no different to not wanting to move house, or preferring peas to carrots. It was a preference, that's all. And now, I am incredibly relieved my mother kept on working. she is very strong willed and if she had been a SAHM the full force of her energy would have been directed at me and that would have been terrifying.

how old is your ds? is he just going through a stage of being attached to people? the thing is, you are still his main carer - you are not even out of the house in an office full time. The nannies are just SUPPORT to enable you to work.

Yeah oranges, my mum was similar. gave up work for 10 years and never stopped going on about how much she regretted it and how we had damaged her 'career' (which she left anyway when we left home!!)

I don't have much of a model of 'good' childcare except from my dad, who was great and around so much (partly cos mum couldn't cope, but also because his job was genuinely flexible)

Ds is 4. I was around at home the first day his new Thur/Fri nanny started and could hear him crying. He rarely cries except when he feels out of control of a situation (he did it quite a lot when ds1 was born in April). He also goes manic and runs round a lot.

I really hope he does feel secure enough in mine and dh's care. I suffer from depression so sometimes feel my energy is lacking to give him the happy childhood I want for him & of course, the job situation & commuting & general anxiety about where to live, house prices, etc is knackering me out even more (another reason I was considering just packing it in).

why are you anxious about where to live? i thought you had a house?

there is something inherently tiring about having a job, combined with small children. i'm giving a big lecture tomorrow and after having gone slightly cross eyed, i've been incredibly self indulgent and booked myself a massage this afternoon, 'wasting' precious childcare hours.

Depression is a tough one - it seems all the more important that you keep working though, as I don't think staying at home and feeling resentful and trapped will help at all - your self esteem will just vanish.

I don't think for a minute that you and your dh sound like you are not giving your children a happy childhood. What are you worried about in that? Children sometimes cry. That's not the end of the world. It's the way they communicate.

On children liking or not liking their carer - I think that you do have to listen to your child, and respect his/her opinion.

My daughter (3.2) takes pretty strong dislikes to some adults - eg her paternal grandmother, her French class teacher, our window cleaner - and is totally enamoured of others - my mother, my sister, our electrician and her English class teacher. Similarly she hates children's tea parties (and sits them out on the sofa) but adores adult parties (and is the only one on the dance floor all evening until the music stops).

So - try to find the nanny your child loves, and it will be so much easier for both of you.

I agree it's worth trying to find a nanny the children like, but in this case, there are three nannies, who are all working to suit themselves not the employer. I don't think it's worth sticking with that just for the sake of continuity. and your daughter may not like her french teacher, but she still attends her classes, doesn't she?