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Original poster

Misrepresentation of the working class in the media

38 replies

manchita · 16/12/2007 20:25

There has just been a very interesting debate on radio 4 today, with one guest arguing that the working class are all being tarred with same brush as chavs/benefit cheats/dysfunctional families.
He argued that there are many well educated wc families with clear morals and a strong working ethic.
My family def fit into the latter category and I am from a family who fits into the latter and I do believe that working class has become a byword for poor/dysfuntional.
Does anyone have a view on this?

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Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 20:27

Sorry messed that post up but I'm sure you know what I mean!

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SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 20:35

I agree that not all working class people are benefit cheats or "chavs" (a word I hate, as it seems to simply be a new word for "common"), but I don't think the media portrays all working class people as chavs either: lots of characters are working class and perfectly decent people eg various porters/receptionists/nurses in Casualty and Holby, Mark and Arther fowler (haven't watched Eastenders lately!), Rose and her mum from Dr Who, and those are just the first few who've popped into my head from the damas I've watched in the last few years. I don't watch much drama.

As for being well educated - in most classigfications you cease to be working class once you have a degree, but lots of working class people have some education (like those nurses). I really don't see that there's a setreotype.

southeastastra · 16/12/2007 20:37

yes my view is that bbc and radio 4 really should concentrate on stop making their own opinions seen as the truth.

TwoIfBySanta · 16/12/2007 21:10

Don't you think though that when the chattering classes talk about "working class" they refer now to those on benefits as opposed to those on lower wages?

southeastastra · 16/12/2007 21:14

i honestly think that the middle class tend to spend too much time writing about the wrongs in this world, rather than doing anything about it.

LittleSleighBellasRinging · 16/12/2007 21:14

I think it has got better than it used to be tbh, because of series like Holby City etc.

Yes TIBS, I think you're right. Generally when they talk about wc in the media, they mean very poor people - they wouldn't really classify nurses and policemen as wc, they'd call them middle class now. Basically almost anyone with a mortgage or a salaried is defined as mc.

southeastastra · 16/12/2007 21:20

do the middle class take bbc radio 4 as their guides for life

SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 21:26

who says anyone with a mortgage is middle class? That's not a definition I've ever read, or inferred.

In fact I think there is another working class stereotype - a salt of the earth stereotype which isn't really negative at all.

But southeastastra, you are wrong. Don't you know that writing about something is doing something about it. The pen is mightier than the sword after all. what other practical thing to you expect the "middle classes" to do about negative stereotypes of working class people exactly? go out and beat the truth into people?

CliffRichardSucksEggsInHell · 16/12/2007 21:30

I think lumping hundreds of thousands of people into one stereotype is wrong. Whether that stereotype is working class, middle class or upper class.

Class definitions serve no other purpose these days than to belittle other people. I wish they were banned.

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 21:31

I agree little sleigh. It is almost as if things are shifting socially and no one really understands whats going on.
I think if you are salaried as we are( I am asahm through choice, DP works, no benefits)
you are assumed to be middle class but both our backgrounds are far from that

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Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 21:32

I agree Cliff, that the old definitions are wrong and outdated which is why I believe politicians are floundering.
If only everyone else believed that though....

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southeastastra · 16/12/2007 21:39

the thing is though that the class system has shaped britain like it or not.

i do think that we were more prone to get out and protest on the streets than we are now sp.

email and no10 petitions don't do much do they.

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 21:49

That's what I mean-there is no unity even within the working class. It is becoming the working class and the non-working class....in the discussion I mentioned at the beginning of the thread one of the guests quoted a woman who was ostracised by her neighbours because she worked'benefits not good enough for you eh?' kind of atitude,I mean WTF?

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SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 21:53

SEA: no, but talking on radio 4 and getting in the press achieve quite a lot. More than any protest ever did.

Manchita - so you're saying that 3 quarters of the working class aren't seen as working class any more, and that those that remain are usually seen as being what would more usually be termed as the underclass? I don't agree, but if you are right so what? it means you're not associated with the negative stereotype, surely?

Finally, Cliff: class definitions are very important because they make various assumptions that peaople make anyway explicit. There is a lot of snobbery (and inverse snobbery for that matter) about, and it affects people's education, job prospects and sometimes their ability to get benefits and advice. By defining classes and using statistics, we can show that and start to change it. It is much easier to be socially mobile now than 40 years ago, but there is still a way to go.

It's not just the UK though. the US also has a class system, it's just that they don't talk about it as much, and they don't have an upper class. social mobility is arguably more difficult there than in the UK.

SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 22:01

x-posted. manchita - by "non-working class" I think you mean underclass.

sorry if this is patronising, but there's some stuff about it herewww.s-cool.co.uk/topic_quicklearn.asp?loc=ql&topic_id=27&quicklearn_id=4&subject_id=64&ebt=289&ebn=& ebs=&ebl=&elc=13 . you'll see it's an old idea.

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 22:05

No. I am not saying that. I am saying there is a difference within the class that maybe people are not seeing and that yes, everyone lumped in as working class are being associated with a negative stereotype.
I don't know if I agree with you about the US being less socially mobile than here. I started another thread a few days ago based on a report that social moblity in this country has not improved since the 1970's and that internationally we are very low down on the scale of people moving up the ladder.

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Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 22:09

I understand the concept it's the tern underclass that I was trying to avoid.

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SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 22:10

we have quite bad social mobility compared to most of Europe, but similar/better social mobility than the US as I recall.

can you give an example of the non-working underclass being lumped in with the working class? I do agree that class voundaries are changing, but I don't agree there's any tarring with the same brush going on.

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 22:10

Sorry the term underclass, though tis better than chav I suppose

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TwoIfBySanta · 16/12/2007 22:10

If anyone asks just say you are in a class of your own.

SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 22:11

why were you trying to avoid it? non-working class is ambiguous surely (as it could also mean anyone who isn't working class)

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 22:17

Senora,I would be interested in your view on why our social moblity is so low within europe?
I think I have read a lot of your posts on these kind of debates and are alwyas interesting.
Rather than giving an example of everyone being lumped in together I think it would be harder to find examples of not being? ( The programme claimed everyone was, esp in the case of the white working class)

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SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 22:42

I've already given examples of strong, positive working class characters on TV.

also here are some articles which do not assume that the working classes are a bunch of scrounging ne'erdowells (there are lots, these are just the first few from major media sources that came up on Google)

working class graduates less likely to get decent jobs (article does not imply this is the graduates' own fault)

universities will struggle to attract working class students (article implies this is a bad thing)

ok, I'll stop there or dh will get cross with me for being on the computer all night.

as for why we have worse social mobility than europe, I belive there are a lot of reasons. Probably the most important ones are:

  1. social policy: most european countries have had more socialist governments than us over the last 30 years, and it shows in their schools policies. the UK's "parental choice" policy (started by the Tories, continued by labour) has been a disaster for the schools that performed below aversage before: those who could afford to started driving their kids accross town, and many schools' performance got worse as a result (not because all poorer/working class kids are worse, but because schools need a mix of pupils)
  1. attitudes. In the UK, many working class people are p[roud to be working class more than they are in other countries. This leads some people to sneer at the idea of "bettering" oneself through education, and puts a lot of people off. I've never met anyone in Spain who has had that attitude, but admittedly this may just be because I know fewer Spanish people than English people. Also, the British have a weird rebellious streak against authority and, by extension (in some people's minds) against the universities and education. For example, no other European country had problems with MMR take-up because people in those countries do not question doctors' opinions. As it goes, i think this is partly a good thing, although it probably has gone a bit far in the UK. My spanish midwife was shocked that I might question why I had to have 5 (count 'em!) scans and wrote on my record that I "do not understand the importance of pre natal testing". Other woemn simply did not question it, and in a similar way, Spanish school pupils are not as keenly aware of their "rights" as their British counterparts. I'm rambling, but I suppose my general point is that if a Spanish teacher suggests a working class Spanish girl go to university, she will most likely think that it is a good idea because the teacher said so. a similar English girl might think "what does she know, she's a teacher" and do whatever it was she was planning to do anyway.
SenoraPostrophe · 16/12/2007 22:43

sorry, got a bit carried away there. the thing about attitudes is a pet subject of mine. one day i'll make it coherent.

Original poster
manchita · 16/12/2007 22:55

You are not rambling at all, tis very interesting and class and attitudes are something I find fascinating. But, for now, let's leave it for another day - I am ill and tired and can't answer you sensibly!
Goodnight
But must just say-not sure about TV characters you mentioned being strong and positive. I don't watch Holby City or Eastenders but didn' Arthur end up dying in prison?
Hasta manana senora

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