UK and USA - compare and contrast

[KateandtheGirls]

Turquoise and I were talking a little bit about this earlier this week and we thought it would be interesting to start a thread.

Now I know there are many problems in the USA, and I'm still feeling quite sickened by the way the majority of people in this country voted the other day. But in a lot of ways things are so much more pleasant and civilised here.

For example:

*Halloween. Trick or Treating is a fun activity for the kids. No-one's house gets vandalised if they don't have treats.

*Bonfire Night/July 4 (i.e. the night when there are fireworks). Again, this is done in a fun, civilised manner. There certainly aren't gangs of teenagers roaming around letting off fireworks at all times of the night.

*Houses/cars being broken into. Happens a lot more often in the UK. In fact a lot of people here don't even lock their cars, and some people don't lock their house doors when they're out. There's a level of trust here that you don't get in the UK.

Thoughts? Comments?

I bet that it does. I wish that it didn't.

Now that I've been so negative I feel I should say something positive. So, other things I like and miss about the States:

the bright colours - in the landscape, the homes, the clothes

cinnamon on everything

Velveeta - yes, I love it!

the acceptability of being a girly girl

being able to ask a question without prefacing it with 'sorry to bother you, but if you have a moment could you possibly....'

the ease of making friends and the often immediate bond between women

the holidays (all of them) with tons of food and over the top decorations

Oh, now I'm getting homesick!

Velveeta???? Gawd, woman you are sick!!

Be fair cheese is better in the UK, it tastes of something!

Now, Good Seasons salad dressing is something else!

I haven't read through all the posts (yet), but one thing I wanted to get off my chest is that I know where I prefer to live (warts and all) and that is the UK.

I don't think I would base my opinion on which place is better by how Trick or Treat is run, but just by the everyday feel of the commuity. I feel that the place where we are now is a lot more genuine than the places where we've lived in the US - more emphasis on liking people for who they are rather than for what they do.

Incidentally, with Bonfire Night, we've had fab experiences here in the UK (2 times since we moved here in 2003. I much prefer the celebrations that we have had here compared to our city's 4th of July celebrations. Last year we went to our boys school fireworks, and this year, we celebrated during a church retreat weekend - both times, we were in a tightly-knit community having fun together with the fireworks as a backdrop; much different going to the local High School and sitting in stadium seats. I haven't noticed a lot of fireworks outside the normal Bonfire Night weekend (probably helps 5/11 falls on a Friday) this year. Last year, it was more noticeable, but I think this might have been something to do with Diwali.

I know, I know, but Velveeta melted with a can of Rotel tomatoes makes the best queso dip EVER.

A friend of mine (from the states) used to do the same thing with velveeta and salsa dip. Rather nice, but it isn't cheese

She was responsible for my Good Seasons habit. Dh gets told to stock up each time he goes to Texas on buisness.....how sad is that?

Turquoise, that's interesting that you think children can be children for longer in the US. I have just the opposite view! You're right about the mini-prostitute clothes though. I'm often shocked by what some seven year old girls, and younger, are allowed to wear in England.

I think that's the same in the US and UK. I remember joking with my neighbour in the US about my daughter going to kindergarten, that I'd have to start buying her "tart clothes".

Kids in the US do a lot of things before their UK counterparts. The things that spring to mind - babysitting from 10 years old, which would be absolutely shocking to most UK parents; soliciting work, such as grass cutting, leaf raking, snow clearing, car washing from around 10 years old; driving from 15. The only thing that UK kids do ahead of US kids is drink alcohol.

You're right about Velveeta not being cheese, hmb. I think the packaging actually calls it 'cheese food'. That does sound disgusting but I would put it above Cheese Whiz in the Great Hierarchy of Cheese/Cheese Food. I mean, cheese in a can for God's sake!

God Bless America and all its hardening arteries!

I particularly like the frozen macaroni cheese at my local store that proudly boasts "8% real cheese"

Thought of something else I like about the English - their unflapability (sp?). I'm often amazed at how calm and cheerful people can remain in England. We lived in Barnes in SW London when the Hammersmith Bridge was bombed a few years ago. Rather than everyone being scared or intimidated by it it was like a street party the following morning. Everyone was out chatting, drinking cups of tea together and exchanging information about the bombing. The bridge was closed so a lot of us missed work that day and it was like kids on a snow day from school.

On a smaller scale I remember watching a friend prepare the dessert for a rather formal dinner party. It was one of those desserts you must make just before serving. It failed miserably and was more of a puddle than a pudding but she just said 'Oh well, I'll put lots of cream on top and no one will notice.' I was so impressed.

how about the lack of a free and uncensored press in the US? Having lived in the States for a year I found the media in the US just absolutely rubbish - if it wasn't so scary about how one sided and vacuous the news is over there it would be laughable.
Also the so called right to free-speech - i have friends in California who were actively against the invasion of Iraq - they had anti-war stickers on their cars and found that people were giving them the finger and honking their horns at them at traffic lights, even driving up to their bumper to intimidate them. So much for the philosophy of freedom and democracy.
What I love most about the US is the amount of open space (though the 50mph speed limit is infuriating) - there is so much gorgeous scenery (I've travelled through 31 states and nothing in the UK begins to compare with most of it!).

A good friend (no children as yet but always hoping to meet someone and start a family) is currently deciding between high powered job offers in London and San Francisco was shocked when I told her that the maternity rights which we take for granted in Europe don't apply in the US. My sister lives in the US and we almost can't have the conversation about maternity entitlements because she just doesn't have the rights to return to work and choices that we have over here. OTOH I was very envious of a friend of a friend in Canada whose office provided free of charge a milk expressing suite for her with electric pump!

These threads about the USA really upset me. Can I just point out how huge the USA is? And from State to State things can be very, very different? I am from Boston, and to me it is a very safe city, and I know no one who owns a gun nor have a ever seen a gun in Boston(I know they are there but!) Texas and Massachusetts are like comparing England and Spain in my mind, totally different cultures. I live in a communtity that is very caring, we don't dress our kids like sluts or in all character clothing, are kids aren't growing up to fast. John Kerry won my state by a big margin! It is one of the best states for Health care for those who can't afford it. Where I live families don't normally let their kids watch commericial television, most of us get our news from Puplic Radio and we do care about the rest of the world(many of my friends have traveled around the world, work in charities that help other countries, or in fact are people who were not born in the USA). I know that middle America isn't always like my hometown, but the USA isn't made up of a bunch of close minded individuals either.

I would say the on thing that SHOCKS me about living in London(I live in Crouch End) is the "antisocial" behavior. Our cars have had there window smashed more then 3 times, I have seen men fighting with women who are pushing strollers(something I just can't get over) I had my bag searched by thiefs(they were trying to steal my wallet) at a local starbucks. At the school my daughter goes to, I tried to make a class phone and address list(something that most schools in the USA do) and was told that the school wouldn't do it as in the past when they have " and parents fall out they have been known to use the addresses on the classlist to go and smash the windows in the other parent's house" On Bonfire night local youths try and gate crash and we have to make plans on how to deal with them. Where I live in the USA I have never encountered this sort of behavior, it never even occured to me that a parent may fight with anohter parent in such a way(of course parents fight, but not physically or damaging others properties) I am constantly shocked that part of our discussions at schools are about things like this, and my daughter went to an inner city, state funded school that was very close to a housing project(an council estate here)in Boston so it isn't that we live in a sheltered area in Boston.

Things I love about London are the arts and culture, the tube(!) the diversity, the fact that there are so many "foreigners" make my family seem normal(american/indian mix)and that so many people travel very extensively. That you can get cleaners to do your ironing! The amount of thing available for children/families to do from the public swimming pools, to the city farms, to the puppet theathers, London is a city that has lots for young families to do.

Things I don't like the lack of healthy, cheap kid friendly food(I am sure people will disagree with me but I find shopping for my kids easier in the USA, if something says no sugar, it means no sugar not artificial sweetners!)The service at shops, and the cost of living!

Things I miss about home, sharing childcare with other mums, living in a place that has a real sense of community, living in a place that is very politically and socially active(where I live people are passionate about politics, all Democrats, many of my friends traveled to help support Kerry in swing states, and many of my other friends work for NGOS), being able to recycle most of my trash(!) And "one stop" shopping

Things I don't miss about the USA, born again Christians, George Bush, the segregation of Blacks, Asians, Whites and Latinos, the culture of consummerism.

I love things about both places, and would never say everyone in the UK has antisocial behavior etc, I know that from place to place things are different and I wouldn't try and say what all of the UK is like based on my experience in London. I think when people post they should acknowledge that what they write may be the case in their experienc, but it is not "how it is" in the whole of the USA. Sorrry this is so long but I just wanted to add a voice from the other side!

August24, of course you're absolutely right about the US being huge and extremely varied. I do try to qualify my posts by saying that this is my experience in Texas. Unfortunately I have grown up around a lot of the negative stereotypes of Americans that it sounds like you've been fortunate enough to avoid. I wonder why it's the negative kind of experiences that I've had rather the positive kind of experiences that you've had that people remember about America. I mean in the general stereotype of Americans. Unfortunate, as I'm sure there are many Americans as you've described. In fact, I wish I knew more of them! That's one of the reasons I'm considering joining a US expat group here in London. Hopefully meeting other Americans who are travelling and perhaps have a wider view of the world than many, if not most, of my current US relationships would help undo some of my negative experiences and improve my own view of the US.

August24: you are completely right!

Text111: That 'unflappability' is generally known as the Blitz spirit - I think a big difference between the UK and US (notwithstanding August24's comments) is the fact that the British have a history of being attacked on their own soil, which gives a certain perspective on life. Even though our generation has no first-hand experience of this, we have long lived under the shadow of terrorism (the IRA and just plain barking mad people). The US has never really been attacked in this way (other than Pearl Harbour) - not long sustained attacks. It has been suggested that this is why the attacks of 9/11 had such an affect on the American psyche. The Brighton Bombing was truly shocking - the IRA left the message the next day that they would try again and again. Thatcher's words the next day were "The attack failed. All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail." Much as I hate to admire Thatcher in any way, it's a very 'unflappable' response.

Supermarket us - bags packed for you & collect shopping by driving through a collection centre. Easy no stress.
Supermarket uk - bags packed whilst you deal with kids , payment & all other customers waiting their turn. Push heavy trolley through car park with kids in tow & loadup car.

Supermarkets offering the US system would quickly make a profit. Of course can internet shop but delivery slots can be tricky sometimes etc.

Good post, August24. I'm from California and I don't begin to pretend to understand people from many other parts of the USA. Went to uncle's wedding in Florida with the rest of my California family and all of us thought it was like going to a foreign country, we just couldn't get the hang of how "they" did things there.

I find British self-deprecation refreshing after American over-exhuberant self-confidence... but then, the Brits always knock themselves and that drives me crazy after a while, too. UK has a lot going for it.

If there's one thing I could change, it's the filth. I can hardly believe how DIRTY British cities and towns are. Compared to other places I've been all over Europe, and much of the USA. Really gets me down, sometimes.

Zebra, it's so funny that you mention the dirtiness of English cities. My best friend from the States is comng over in a few weeks and knowing that has made me start to see things through US eyes a bit more. We live in a nice neighborhood on the edge of London and even here there are always bits of paper in the gutter and on the pavements. I think it's when the dustmen drop things and don't bother to pick them up or when the foxes get into the bins. However it gets there, it never gets picked up! I've never seen a street cleaner or anything like that and the neighbors don't get together and do it. I was seriously considering just doing it myself before my friend arrives but DH said I would be considered the village idiot if I did!

tex111, vision of you with bin bag and mop & bucket out on the streets at the dead of night .

Why ARE our cities so dirty?! Who cleans up in the US?

Stickynote, it's even more funny than that. I actually got as far as planning to tape an ice pick to the end of a broom handle to pick up the rubbish! Poor DH. I'm sure he wishes he'd married a nice English girl sometimes.

In my experience the local council handled it for the most part but you often see volunteer groups picking up rubbish on the side of the road. Volunteer groups or prisoners actually!

We have lots of street sweepers in central London who work very hard. We see them every single day except Saturday and ds and I always say good morning; they tend eventually to get a promotion and go on the dustcarts instead. The problem is that because of the terrorist threats they removed street dustbins several years ago so people have the habit of throwing down their litter and expecting someone else to clear it up later.

you obviously don't have enough people doing community service orders in your area. We have teams of people picking up litter in our suburb...now, if they would get people to clean up after their dogs it would be a real improvement. Pavements are lethal, the school caretaker has to decontaminate the area outside the school three times a day!

Whilst agreeing with comments about america being so vast it's not always fair to generalise I have to say that the most appalling customer service I've received was in the U.S. At a local mall near Princeton the staff in every shop we went into were sullen and we couldn't eat in the food court as it was a health hazard. By contrast we've always found NYC to be really friendly. shame the roads and pavements wouldn't be out of place in downtown Bombay though