Their fence/our fence?

[Levanna]

I'd be really interested to see what enyone else would do about this. We bought our first home during the summer. Every garden shares a back fence with the house behind it, in our row. This fence marks the boundary as far as we are aware and is made of the conctrete bases and posts with slotted in panels. They were placed at the time of the houses' construction. Apart from at the end of our garden. The neighbour at the back has claimed verbally to us that the boundary fence (the concrete base) is his and that we have to replace our fence which is strangely inside the boundry one, at present. This means that he doesn't in fact have a fence at the bottom of his garden, just the concrete markers, and we are providing the fence at our expense, on our land, when it should actually be on the concrete markers between our two gardens and paid for equally by both of us. He seems to be a fairly odd man, he dumped several large piles of ivy into our garden during the summer, each of which we had to spend hours cutting down by hand, putting in garden bags and taking to the tip. (But then we caught him at it .) I've glimpsed him several times staring into our house from his upstairs windows which I'm quite uncomfortable with, as DD1's bedroom is at the back of our house. How would you go about dealing with this? As far as I'm aware we have every right to reinstate the fence on the boundary line, but I'm not entirely sure if it's worth the hassle. Though nor am I sure that in effect I want to have to foot the bill, and provide the maintenance for a fence which we should both have responsibility for. Though I'm of course over the moon to have a garden at last, I'm not quite sure how to go about things like this!

What he has told may not in fact be the case. Your deeds should have a plan with them which show the ownership/responsibility for fences. Most solicitors give clients a photocopy of the deeds when they complete. If yours didn't, contact them and ask if they still have a copy with their file that you can have.

Have you spoken to the neighbours about the fence/the ivy/this man? Where did the ivy come from? Have you got room for a strategically placed Leylandii or something to block the view from his window(s) to dds?
Fwiw, if it is proved that the concrete posts mark the boundary line then you should put the fence on it otherwise it just causes problems for future owners. Whether you can get him to pay his share may be more difficult and not worth the hassle. I think you need to find out what you are up against.

Thanks Freckle and Alterego, I have looked at the deeds previously, but haven't got them to hand. They don't show 'T' or 'H' marks, but it does say that "all walls are party walls" (or something! Better double check that ). I'm not sure how to go about proving where the boundary line is? It seems fairly obvious where it should be, so I am tempted to put the fence there (in line with all the others) and leave it to him to disprove it, if he can or is inclined to! I agree alterego about it possibly not being worth the hassle, but I am getting the imression that he may well be of the give an inch and he'll take a mile kind of character! Thanks so much for both of your advice. I'm not entirely sure what the neighbours each side think of him, or whether they've had any altercations with him in the past. Though we do get on fine with each of our neighbours, I don't quite know how to broach the subject with them! (As for the leylandi, believe it or not we removed three extremely large ones from the garden, maybe they weren't there without reason, after all!)

The planning dept may be able to tell you where the boundary is....don't ask too officially

The deeds should tell you where the boundary is and who's responsibility the fence is - ours does and our solicitors gave us a copy of it when we completed. I think the party walls thing relates to the house walls only, but I could be wrong on that.
How old is your house? Would the original plans still be available anywhere?
The Land Registry might be able to help as they would have records of the size of the plot you own - it might mean some careful measuring but you could find out that way. There's probably a search fee though.

Witrh regards to the fence i'd have a look at the deeds. With regards to him staring into yur house I would probably wave at him and if he kept on i'd probably flash him my boobs and out blinds up the next day, LOL. As for the ivy, i'd have lobbed it back over into his garden.

Party walls refer to the walls of the house. If this is a relatively recent estate (i.e. within the last 50 years), then there is probably an original conveyance with the deeds. This should show all boundaries. It may not be with any copy your solicitor gave you, as they probably only copied the details on the charge certificate (i.e. the document issued by the Land Registry). If your solicitor doesn't have a copy of original documents with your file, you could ask them to obtain the deeds from your lender and let you have a look at them. If you explain why you need it, they may even do it for no charge.

You can access land registry details on line for £2 a document here

Just an added word of warning. I would try not to antagonise this man, however awkward he may be. Remember that when selling, you do have to declare now any neighbourly disputes you have had (if they are serious). I wouldn't want this to jeopardise future sales of my house - it could mean you're stuck in a house with a neighbour whose behaviour gets gradually worse!
Deeds will tell you fence issues. If you have a mortgage on the house, it is likely that the building society holds these. Any paperwork you have may not be the full deeds. I would contact my solicitor to find out once and for all and if it is found that the fence is where you think it is, I would be tempted to pay for it and offer it as pleasantly as you can to this old bugger so he thinks he's winning / getting a good deal. A couple of hundred pounds for a fence may well turn out to be invaluable! Hope you get it sorted.

Thank you all so much for your advice, sense and reason. I haven't been able to see the fence for the ivy on this one! I will indeed speak with our solicitor about it, just to verify where it should go. The house is a typical '30's semi, so I don't know about the original conveyancing? Funnily enough he's also the lenders solicitor, so getting hold of the deeds shouldn't be hard - he probably holds them! Thanks Freckle. Rowlers, your suggestion really appeals to me, if I could pull it off we'd all come out of it relatively happy. Having to declare a neighbour dispute further down the line is something I'm aware of. Dammit!

The reason he dumped the ivy in your garden is because, it was growing on "your" fence from your garden and theoretically you're supposed to give back anything you trim off from other people's plants that overhang your property. Basically he couldn't be ar$ed to get rid of it himself...

Is the fence actually falling down or does it appear secure from your side? If there's not a problem with it and you're happy with the fence, I'd be inclined to leave it. Otherwise, check with your neighbours where they consider the boundary to be and replace it accordingly.

It was 'his' ivy growing on 'my' fence actually. In fact the fence needs replacing mainly due to the weight and nature of the ivy, pulling it down. It really does need replacing, it's in a right state! Thanks though Soupdragon, I'm not sure there 'is' a method to his madness!

I maybe a little confused about this, but I think with fences it depends which side the posts are as to who is responsible. What I mean is with all panelled fences one side usually has the posts on it and is the 'inside' of the fence. The other side is usally more flat and it the outside. Therefore if you have the 'inside' of the fence it is your fence and you are responsible to the cost/upkeep. For example if the fences are down between houses (in a terrace or something) one side is usually one way, the other side the other, so you have responsibility for the fence on your right (for instance) and your left hand neighbour has responsibility for the fence on the left of your property. Does this make sense??

Most neighbours will share costs, but infact you don't HAVE to I believe.

This means if it is YOUR fence, you are responsible and you cannot ask him for money to maintain the fence.

Thanks crunchie, that was the general way of thinking. Now, according to one boundary website I've stumbled across, it's not seen as an accurate indicator of who owns the fence as some people tend to feel that if they are buying a fence and putting it on their land they shouldn't then have to put up with the 'ugly' side. (A bit like buying a jumper, then wearing it inside out!). So, it's not neccesarily an accurate indication of who owns what. If it turns out we should each have a fence, I have no problem buying one, but if it turns out that it should be a party fence then we should share the bill I believe. Though, as has been suggested, I'm tempted to foot it myself for the sake of a hassle free life! Thanks for replying .