Was Sir Trevor McDonald justified in calling Bernard Manning

[NadineBaggott]

"a fat white bastard"

?

(I haven't seen this discussed but may have missed it!)

Does it make a difference that some of BM's jokes were often construed as racist?

Do these words befit a Knight of the Realm?

Do two wrongs make a right?

Discuss

does it make him racist?

but if it is wrong for a white person to call a black person rascist, then why is it ok for a black person to call someone a white bastard?

Not right imo.

by 'in context' do you mean it was a 'joke'?

When I first saw what Trevor had said I did think he was bang out of order, but then it was discussed on the Wright Stuff and I saw the clip of him actually saying it, and TBH, I don't think he meant any offence at all, and I think if Bernard would have been there, he'd have laughed as hard as the next man.

I was talking about it to a friend of mine and she piped up with 'What if it had have been Benard calling Trevor a fat black bastard, would it have been funny then?' and I personally think that if it was in the right context and everyone was open to that sort of humour, well then yes it would have been funny.

I think there is an obvious difference to someone using racist terms in an insulting mannor, and someone making a joke, though as they say the proof is in the eating of the pudding so the people who tell the joke need to understand that not everyone will find the joke funny.

i don;t think he was right to call him that, but i bet it felt really good ,after years of BM;s absolutely disgusting racist / sexist / misanthropic/ misogynist 'humour'

the inference in white bastard is that it is as pejorative as black bastard

but wasn't that Bernard's argument - he was telling 'jokes' he wasn't wanting to offend but it did. So if white people were offended by TM's joke, surely that's the same thing?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no uberfan of BM just seems like double standards.

Well the fat and white bits are simply a description, so no problem there. I am assuming that BM was not born out of wedlock, so that's simply an insult. Is it justified to insult someone? That all depends on the context.

surely black and white are description also?

These thing are always taken out of context.

Trevor has always had a wicked sense of humour - his job didn't let us see that mostly.

I don't think BM's family will be offended by him making a joke - that's what BM was all about anyway. BM sometimes deilberately set out to cause offence - i doubt whether that was true in TM's case

I'm sure BM's family and certainly B wouldn't be offended but that's not the point is it.

What has context got to do with it? If BM's 'jokes' were racist then surely Trev's was?

It is double standards and you would have thought Sir Trevor would have been more intelligent then to call BM a fat white so and so, if white people get in shite for saying black this that and the other then black people should not be able to say white this that and the other, it has to work both ways.

Also it was fatist

It may have been a joke and I can see Sir Trev doing that kind of thing, however if someone else had said fat black bastard even as a joke, I dont think it would have got the same response.

here is the clip.

Not sure really, I think that it was a bit tasteless to make a joke about it the week BM died, tbh. And sure, if a white person had called a recently deceased black man a "fat black bastard" then he would probably be out of a job today.

The only reason it is half way acceptable and funny is because BM was so totally racist and I can imagine Sir Trevor would have been hurt/offended many times over the years by nasty comments.

It was meant as a joke. There has to be something wrong if we are so worried about upsetting people that we can't have a laugh IMO. Let's face it, it was no worse than some of BM's jokes!!

I think in the context of a comedy show it was very funny. Not justified, just funny.

"Let's face it, it was no worse than some of BM's jokes!! "

correct and for which he was lambasted and called a racist!

that's the point I'm failing to make - is a joke always a joke or not?

Are some able to tell a racist joke and get away with it?

Message withdrawn

I've just watched the clip and there is a crucial difference in what TM did and what BM did - which makes the latter racist and the former not - being racist is about making inferences or judgments about an individual based on the colour of their skin and - therefore - making the same - sweeping inference or judgment about all people who share that particular skin colour. (or not bothering with an individual in the first place and jumping straight in to making judgments about the group). What TM did was not remotely racist - he was neither judging BM for his skin colour nor making sweeping judgments offensive to all white people - he was making an ironic joke about Bernard Manning - a reference to BM's own jokes, made all the more amusing because it came from the mouth of someone of colour who would have been the butt of BM;s jokes. Despite the fact that he used the word "white" there was nothing in his comment that was about BM's skin colour or about white people generally - it was about BM - the humour/judgment came from objective truths about BM. (repeat exact same argument about fatism)

Whether or not it's tasteful to make any joke about someone who has died recently is another matter. But TM was not being racist and to suggest otherwise indicates a complete lack of understanding about what racism is.

I think it was wrong of Sir T to say that

Just watched the clip and I think its hilarious. Agree with hatwoman.

Agree hatwoman.

racist no (hatwoman puts it wonderfully)

tasteless- probably

probably best not repeated- yes

I think it's WRONG

no I dont agree with hatwoman. It's not allowed to call your neighbour a black bastard, and this is no different.

Normally I would say 2 wrongs dont make a right, but in this case BM can look out for himself - those who live by the sword etc. It does make me wonder if TM has some sort of grudge against white people though, so he hasnt done himself any favours really.