Social services called by school over daughter sleeping in bed with her dad

[eatmyshorts89]

Long story I'll keep it short. Me and my ex share custody of our 4 children, my youngest who's 5 often will get into bed with him as she gets nervous on her own, he puts her back but she gets back in with him later on sometimes. He has an amazing bond with all of them, she told the school today she has special cuddles with her dad. It's what she calls them or sometimes mega cuddles, I know how dodgy this sounds, but its completely innocent she use to come into bed in the morning when we were together for cuddles. It's completely innocent but obviously the school have taken it as possible abuse, and have reported it to social services. I'm literally a nervous wreck I haven't stopped crying, I feel like it's silly, I understand they have a duty of care but could they not of asked us before? What will happen? Has anybody been through this before?

It is something I have come across in my work.
I did a quick general google and it is a really common term, not just abusers.

Sadly through work I’ve come across ‘special cuddle’ scenarios where the child was being abused by the father/stepfather. In more than one of those cases, the mother had no idea it was happening. Schools have to act on these things.

@judgemeallyouwant schools are reporting agencies not questioning ones, hence social services. As teachers we are very limited about what we can ask as it can jeopardise a case.

Am I the only one reading this who thinks that having special cuddles with your 5 yo dd is a little inappropriate for a man? Innocent though it may be, I wouldn't want it for my dd. If you want the graphic details why, I will go into them, but if you use your imaginations, you'll figure it out.
It's time for dd and Dad to realise that she's not a baby anymore

Allrighteo, to be honest this makes you sound... I don’t know, you have reminded me of my grandmother who used to say really warped and inappropriate things to us as children in the form of a ‘warning’.

The idea of little 5 year olds being held coldly at arms length to avoid your hinted at horrors is very sad.

I think some people on here - sadly - have no idea how hands on (and I don’t use that term lightly) and devoted some dads are to their kids. And that includes cuddles and lying in bed with a book or just dozing together on a morning.

@Alrighteo what age is the cut off for a father cuddling their daughter? Please do let us know.
And is this cut off age the same for a mother and her daughter, or a father and son?

calledyoulastnight I think that is why almost 100% of posters have agreed that the school have done the right thing, though,

@Alrighteo At what age is it inappropriate for mothers to cuddle their sons?

I think that is why almost 100% of posters have agreed that the school have done the right thing, though
No, that's not the case.

Almost nobody is saying dads shouldn't hug and cuddle their kids. Almost nobody is saying dads can't and shouldn't be hands on.

What people are saying, rightly, is that the phrase "special cuddle" is a reasonable grounds for a safeguarding concern and in light of that the school were totally appropriate in their response, in line with safeguarding training, and then the appropriate people will either say "no concern / investigate" if required.

Unfortunately, there's a rather large number of posters on MN who have zero safeguarding training or experience who are rather quick to point out how any mention of a concern is absurd/out of order / penalises normal parents doing normal things etc.

We had exactly this once! Exactly the same issue and oldest DD who was also 5 at the time had been talking at school about what they did over Christmas holidays and had mentioned that she shared a bed with daddy (big family all staying at grandparents house) and social were called.
It was fine though, they chatted to her and then us and then signed us off and sent us a letter saying they were happy to take us off their service. As long as you're honest and upfront it'll be ok 👍

Honestly OP I would try not to worry about this. I did a child protection course recently and there are lots of things that must be routinely reported. A child sleeping with a male relative (esp if they are alone) is enough of a flag according to Banardos.

A child sleeping with a male relative (esp if they are alone) is enough of a flag according to Banardos.
Well at least I'm not alone in my concern.
Thank you @sniffingthewax for mentioning that.

My concern is Dad would be naked/semi naked if it's during the night/morning time. I don't know why, but it just doesn't sit right with me (well I do know why).

Sitting up in bed together arm round child, reading a book/watching film - FINE.

Dad spooning 5 year old to sleep - NOT FINE.

The thing is that given the percentage of children in the UK who are abused in their lifetimes, right now, at the very very very least, ONE of our MN poster's children is a victim of sexual abuse.

You can close your eyes etc. Special bond, lovely relationship, totally innocent, trust him implicitly, wouldn't hurt a fly, loves children, completely normal etc etc ad nauseum.

But we have to face ugly stark facts here. And I hope and am as confident as the OP is that there is absolutely nothing going on, BUT, how can the school tell what is 'innocent' and 'perfectly normal' and what is sinister sexual abuse occurring.

Sitting up in bed together arm round child, reading a book/watching film - FINE.
Dad spooning 5 year old to sleep - NOT FINE.

Out of interest, if you changed Dad to Mum in that sentence would it be ok?

Yes - that would be fine and more natural to me.

Why?

From Wikipedia

The vast majority of child sex offenders in England and Wales are male, with men representing 98% of all defendants in 2015/16, and white, with whites representing 85% of convicted child sex offenders and 86% of the general population in 2011.

Also, sorry to keep quoting sources to you (I also have anecdotal - personal experience - reasons for my concern), but from

learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-sexual-abuse/

*How many children experience sexual abuse?
We don't know exactly how many children in the UK experience sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is usually hidden from view. Adults in the child’s life may not recognise the signs that they are being sexually abused and the child may be too young, too scared or too ashamed to tell anyone what is happening to them.

However, there are a number of different sources of information which help build up a picture of the scale of abuse. This includes data from services which work with children and research into children's and adults' self-reported experiences of abuse. Research with 2,275 young people aged 11-17 about their experiences of sexual abuse suggests around 1 in 20 children in the UK have been sexually abused.

Download the briefing for more information (PDF)

Findings from the data
Concerns around sexual abuse have been identified for over 2,700 children in the UK who are the subject of a child protection plan or on a child protection register.
Over a third of all police-recorded sexual offences are against children.
Girls and older children are more likely to experience sexual abuse.
The vast majority of children who experience sexual abuse were abused by someone they knew.*

So let's go with 1 in 20 children.
Let's say that on this thread 100 separate parents are posting.
Statistically speaking, 5 of our children are being (or will be) abused sexually.

That's scary.

As you and you daughter's dad are separated I am surprised the school did not contact you as well as SS. Was your daughter due to go back to your ex's straight after school?

Just to let you all know, a social worker finally contacted me, and my daughters dad , checked a few things etc and said it was absurd that the report was even made as the things on the report were not remotely significant things, and the wording had got changed within the school, teacher had actually said mega cuddles, the report was closed straight away and school told it was very hasty. Needless to say I dont trust the school anymore!

Why don’t you trust the school? Them reporting their concerns means you actually can trust them - they were worried about something, they escalated it, SS looked into it and the matter was closed.

Because of the mislay of information, for example, saying she has special cuddles when she did not. It was clarified by her teacher that she said mega cuddles, not big deal, but the difference in how they both sound is the difference between a referral and not. I have no idea how such important information got mislaid but it put us all through a lot of stress,

I think that’s quite an easy thing to mix up though - your DD is 5 and maybe she did at one point say special cuddles? Who knows. Anyway it’s over now and I personally think they did the right thing, you don’t and I get that it was stressful for you

I think there is a difference, at least in perception, between a mother and a father cuddling up like this, esp where there is no other woman in the house. I don't want to be crude but there are obvious anatomical differences between men and women.
also the vast majority of inappropriate contact in the family is done by fathers not mothers.
of course that's not to say most situations are not perfectly normal. but I really think this practice should be discouraged where there is a man only in the house and the room. if the child is frightened, could he have a camp or folding bed for whichever child is needing reassurance. so the child could be in his room, to speak to, comfort, but not in the same bed as he is. it could also be useful for extra guests, or if he needed to be in a sick child's room to watch them.