Definitions of "disadvantaged" and "socially excluded"

[mumofhelen]

I'm having a discussion and we have fallen onto the topic of SureStart Children's Centre etc and the definition of disadvantaged and socially excluded. Other people's definitions are different to mine so I thought I would ask people's opinions on mumsnet. One person informed me that a person is disadvantaged if they do not have services within 1 mile of their home. Yet, there are wealthy individuals who live more than a mile away from "services" so are these "socially excluded and disadvantaged". Conversely, what is the accepted definition of advantaged? The rich?.....

it means they are 1 mile away or more and they cannot access them...ie. they cannot afford a taxi/car/transport whatever

Let me just make up some popcorn and watch this disintegrate.

socially excluded can also include excluded through disability

oh expat

Nothing to be about, just waiting for the private v. state school twonks to show up.

"The government has defined social exclusion as "what can happen when people or areas suffer from a combination of linked problems such as unemployment, poor skills, low incomes, poor housing, high crime, bad health and family breakdown"."

from an article in the Guardian

TBH I don't know what would be a good definition - distance to services definitely isn't it, but the government one is a bit unspecific, isn't it?

Yes - I think the government is very unspecific and judging by the group that's just left my home, we all have very different views of what is disadvantaged. Leaving out education - around where I live there aren't any private schools (within a 10 mile radius and only 1 private prep school within 20 mile radius and that's at the very edge of the 20 mile radius) although there are 3 private nurseries.

Several definitions came up, including:
"1 income households" - my view: so is a household on an income of £55,000 disadvantaged?
"in receipt of child tax credits" - my view: that's 9/10 families disadvantaged according to the revenue chaps
"scruffy house, with unkept garden and poor decoration" - my view: so that's any family where both parents work and don't have the £££ to hire a decorator/cleaner/gardener
"household income below £15,000" - my view: depends where you live. An income of £15,000 up in a place like Thurso is not bad.
"uneducated" - my view: just because you don't have qualifications does not necessarily mean you're doomed.
"foreign/migrants" - my view: anyone who can speak several languages is not disadvantaged
"is ethnic minority or non-white" - my view: a contractor where my husband works is of Nigerian decent and earns £150,000 per annum - at least and only pays 30% tax. Hardly at a disadvantage is he?
"rural resident" - my view: no noisy neighbours, pleasant views, good schools with small classes, plenty of space - hardly a disadvantage.
Then the usual: the young mums etc.

I'm begining to come to a conclusion that "disadvantage and socially excluded" = non conformists or those who are not "white + married 2 parent family + between25to40yearsold + living in surburbia + both in paid employment + with only 1 child + with all modern convinience + lives next to "good services". Basically, those who are not white, married and middle class, or worst still, purely based on the impression/opinion/judgement of a civil servant.

Perhaps if someone can define "advantaged"?

Oh yes - deprived areas. I've been told I live in a deprived area. The thing is, I don't feel deprived nor do I believe my area is deprived. Fair enough, I live in the countryside, a couple of miles away from town so I'm not within a mile's drive of GP surgery, schools, shops, libraries. However, I'm within a ten minutes drive of all the above, I live in council band F house, and so do most of my neighbours. Deprived? Not according to the council but according to the health/education/social care lot, the area is deprived. The whole thing is so bizare. The other buzz word I'm hearing is "hard to reach". I'm also informed that I form part of the "hard to reach" group, which I think is strange: I have a BT line phone, a mobile phone, e-mail (several address), a fax machine, a valid address with a friendly honest postman who delivers on time at 7.00am every morning except Sundays and Bank holidays. I live a couple of metres off the main road, with off-street parking. Hardly hard to reach is it?

Aren't there some generally accepted criteria for this? I'm sure there is a definition of poverty that is used and agreed on.

Does 'hard to reach' mean you are in a group which is seen as hard to help/hard to get you to listen to government guidelines, or something?

I hope not! If so, that would explain why I'm been branded hard to reach. I should keep my big mouth shout.

oops, Freudian slip - I meant "shut".

OK here we are - HSE report on hard to reach groups defines it as ?inaccessible to most traditional and conventional methods for any reason.?

So it can be geographical factors, attitudinal, cultural etc. And who counts as hard to reach will differ according to who is trying to reach them.

Kathyis6incheshigh - I wished you'd been at my house today!

Tis all Google, Mumofhelen

I'm hopeless with searches - always seem to end up with useless links. I've had a quick scan over the HSE document. Explains a lot. I guess I am "hard to reach" in that respect. From what I can understand, anyone who is not "mainstream" can be considered hard to reach. Home educators, stay-at-home mums, farmers, people who live in isolation or in a geographically isolated area, those who have a disability or an illness, the work-shy unemployed, those who are obese. So it's perfectly feasable to be living in a council band F house and be considered "hard to reach". That explains that one. I still don't understand the "deprivation" label though.