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Original poster

Something awful has happened

37 replies

Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 14:31

I've changed my name as this is very sensive but I had to talk to someone.
My dh used to work for a company and had to do extra work which he was paid directly for. He thought his employers were paying tax but turns out they weren't. The reason he thought this was his salary didn't change but his end of year amount varied.
I wish to God he'd been less trusting as now the Inland revenue have summoned him to appear in court. If they manage to convict him he'll be fined at the best and lose his employment. He works for himself but it's the sort of work where you can't have a conviction and carr on
I can't believe that yesterday morning we were so happy then teatime our world crashed. Our families will suffer too and our parents are elderly. This will definitely get in the papers. I'm sooo upset I can't begin to imagine ever feeling good again. He just looks like he wants to cry all the time.

OP posts:
Twiglett · 28/08/2004 14:35

message withdrawn

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 14:41

thanks twiglett. I'm not sure if he did this? I'll ask him though. He's off to watch his team play and I'm terrified he'll crash as he looks close to a breakdown.

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WideWebWitch · 28/08/2004 14:43

Surely the IR contacted him to ask about it before sending a summons? I would have thought their main interest is getting their money, not incurring extra legal expenses unnecessarily. Are you sure they won't negotiate? Are we talking a huge amount of money here? Have you got a good accountant and solicitor? I know the IR are formidable though, I don't blame you for being anxious. Why ever would it get in the papers? Unless it's a hell of a lot of money or you live in a very small place, I can't see why it would be reported. If your dh is self employed then it probably was his responsibility tbh, sorry, I do realise that's not very reassuring but maybe thinking about the fact that, scary as they are, they're only tax collectors, might help?

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 14:47

Hi WWW, no he wasn't self employed then. He worked for a firm. We got raided by the police and IR b4 this at 7am one morning. They've interviewed his secretary who's with him now and was then and she said this extra work went through the firm. they're accusing dh of having a secret account which is twaddle.

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JJ · 28/08/2004 15:06

Gointhruhell, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Not sure what to advise, but just want you to know that I'm thinking of you. :(

WideWebWitch · 28/08/2004 15:16

But it sounds in that case as if the firm is at fault, not your dh. Blimey, that sounds very heavy handed so I take it we are talking a substantial amount. Sounds awful but if he hasn't got a secret account then he hasn't got a secret account and they can't find it if it doesn't exist.

Freckle · 28/08/2004 15:39

If he was an employee, then payment of tax and NI contributions is down to the employer. The tactics employed here seem very heavy-handed, unless they have been writing to your dh and he has been ignoring them. And why the police?? It's not a criminal matter at this stage.

I would suggest that your dh sees a solicitor experienced in tax matters as soon as possible just to cover himself.

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 15:48

thanks all, he is seeing a solicitor and been taking his advice. One thing that worries me is his old employer used to say if anyone causes him trouble he can cause them trouble as he has contacts in the IR. I know for a fact that he's messed umpteen employees about and it's been ignored??
But how can it get this far, he can't know every IR employee?
I just wish dh could pay it back and not have to go to court but it sounds like this isn't an option now. Because of his job it will get in the papers
his old employer does a lot of back dating iykwim and other stuff to hide profits. He's got away with it for years apparently. It makes me sick though as my dh is so honest and his books are all up to date.
sorry if this is all garbled but to say I'm stressed is an understatement.
we have friends coming for dinner tonight and I've said I'll have to get take out and make dessert as I'm a mess

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zebra · 28/08/2004 18:28

But if it will get in the papers then surely his employer can't hide if anyone at the IR is corrupt, they are more likely to be revealed? Maybe (just maybe) it would be a good thing if you went to the papers on your own, first, to see if they would investigate your side of the story? I mean, corruption at the IR, would be a big story hacks would want it to be true!

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 18:38

yes zebra, I was thinking just the same thing this afternoon. Dh has just come in and I asked him whether they'd put to him just paying the money back. He said they reckon it's a big amount, that he's had 80k without declaring, which is total c*. They said to his solicitor that when it gets to a certain amount they just prosecute. But I know of someone who did have numerous accounts in different names for a lot more and he was just told to pay it back.
Dh said he's going to write to our local MP about it and he's telling the IR that he's doing so.
Thank you so much for your support everyone, it's good to be able to tell people. I'm going to have to tell family and friends soon anyway, I'm dreading their faces

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Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 18:52

Zebra, I mentioned the papers to dh and he agrees. We're trying to think which one is the best for investigative puposes though?

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Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 18:52

purposes*

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WideWebWitch · 28/08/2004 18:52

insight team at The Sunday Times? The Guardian?

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 28/08/2004 18:53

Cheers WWW

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edam · 28/08/2004 19:42

Guardian personal finance pages on a Saturday in one of the separate sections might be an idea - they've covered similar cases in the past.

charlize · 29/08/2004 12:20

gth Do you mind me asking how long ago this is suppossed to have happened? That he was working for this company I mean.
It all sounds very scary does any one here have any knowlege of taxation? Do the police normally get involved?
Sorry Iam not much help myself.

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 29/08/2004 12:46

Hi Charlize, he joined the firm in 1992-1999 then worked for himself. We got raided by the police and IR 2 years ago and didn't hear much more until now.

He's decided to write to our local MP (who has an excellent reputation) and to a national paper.

thanks again MNers for your support xxxx

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ladymuck · 29/08/2004 16:22

Gth, how much of the detail do you know?

It sounds like a fairly lengthy investigation by the Special Compliance Office, and if they really have said nothing since, then it is only because that they think the fraud is ongoing.

They do randomly prosecute in the event of fraud, in order to "make an example". So without wishing to worry you further, if they're going down this route, then they are looking for a heavy penalty - your dh's solicitor should have warned you about this. Are you sure that dh is giving you the full picture?

When you had suffered the dawn raid, did your solicitor not do anything then? If not before, that would have been the time to meet with the IR and discuss everything. The IR would have already have been to the court at that stage in order to get authorisation for the raid.

Is it actually your dh being prosecuted or is he just being dragged in as a witness.

I'm sorry that you're going through this. In some ways the case is just random - the IR will carry out a numbe of prosecutions (and publicise them heaviliy) just to make a point. I've been invloved in similar cases and it is not pleasant.

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 29/08/2004 18:38

thanks ladymuck. He left this firm 3 years ago so they shouldn't think it's ongoing? He's now self employed and his tax is all up to date.
I just can't understand it though, if the claims for this work went through the firm why should dh be expected to pay the tax? Unless that firm are being prosecuted too but we haven't heard anything? It's very worrying to say the least.

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Original poster
Gointhruhell · 29/08/2004 18:40

Dh is giving me all the details. He's totally thrown by it all as he thought they were paying the tax. dh is the one being prosecuted

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BooMama · 29/08/2004 19:17

Oh god, on a very small scale I had some bad experience with IR. DH is self employed and always did his own books - obviously not very well because he got pulled up on some small points and an investigation was launched. It was absolutely agonising, they accused him of not declaring profits and helping himself to money in the till.
At the first meeting he went on his own as everyone had said they are just there to help. Of course they got him into a corner and everything seemed to confuse him which didn't help. After that he employed an accountant who took charge and managed to sort everything out - and avoided anything awful. I was pregnant with my first at the time and it seemed to drag on for about a year. Very upsetting.
I know the situation is very different to yours but I really sympathise. Just get the best solicitors/accountants you can afford and fight through this.
All my support to you and your dh xxx

Poo2 · 29/08/2004 19:34

God, this all sounds awful. We had a panic with the IR on a much smaller scale. Not sure if your saituation has got beyond this point, but I rang the IR to ask them some questions anonymously. They were lovely adn didn;t ask for any reference numbers or names or anything. Maybe your particular situation is beyond somebody on the end of a phone line, but if you have questions about what they can and can't do, it might be worthwhile. Also I know their website is good. Agin, not sure if your case might be a bit too far gone. Maybe its worth a thought. And call the people coming for dinner and tell them you aren't well. Sounds like you are busy enough.

Original poster
Gointhruhell · 29/08/2004 20:18

cheers boomama and poo2, my dh has been summoned to court in october so I don't think any phone calls will stop this, nothing can. I'm just hoping the MP will help us.
I'm just wondering if the old firm are being prosecuted too and the boss has run out of contacts? Maybe dh is being prosecuted with them? Dh's solicitor asked the IR guy over the phone if the old firm are being and they declined to comment. The ex boss has got away with so much it's unbelievable, I just hope he gets his just desserts because he's a pompous s*. He's treated lots of staff horrendously. One girl was going to press charges about his brother (another partner) sexually harrasing her and they sacked her and said she'd been stealing!! This happened after dh left btw.

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ladymuck · 29/08/2004 20:23

Gth,

You mentioned in your first email that your dh had been paid directly for the work, ie not through the company? Presumably the company are now stating that they know nothing about it? Surely your dh's solicitor has been in contact with the company and knows the full story?

The thing that worries me about this is that there is no way I can see that your dh wouldn't have known about this investigation for quite a long time, and would have had the chance to negotiate/make a settlement/provide information to support his position. I'm concerned that he hasn't been honest with you.

The other thing that worries me is that you say "If they manage to convict him he'll be fined at the best and lose his employment". Honey, if the IR convict they will want a custodial sentence, not just a fine. And they will also take civil action to recover the tax lost. I'm sorry if you already know this, but from what you've said so far, I'm not sure how much your dh has been telling you.

As for your dh's taxes being "up to date" - presumably not in the IR's sight if they are now prosecuting.

I am sorry - this must be so upsetting. On the other hand if the IR don't manage to get a conviction you should find that there isn't that much publicity - they only make an issue of it when they want to prove their point.

SenoraPostrophe · 29/08/2004 20:29

lm - not necessarily. IR move in mysterious ways - when we had a run in with them we found out about a court appearance at the last minute because they'd been sending correspondence to the wrong address (and it was a mistake anyway so charges were dropped).

GTH I hope things work out OK for you. The only helpful thing i can think of is to make sure you have copies of every single bank statement etc. now, so that there's plenty of time to get copies from the bank if any have gone missing. But you probably know that.

Sounds very odd.

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