Need help with a PhD proposal!!!

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

Submitting next week, just wanted to know what makes for a good proposal?

(Its in the social sciences field)

Yes, I was merely stating the obvious in relation to the nature of research.

In reference to "buckling down", everyone starts out reistered as an MLitt or equivalent and then there is a formal upgrade procedure to PhD in order to avoid such mishaps, or so I understand...

Anyway, this isn't really helping the OP. I wish her all the best in her proposal submission.

I disagree too, sorry, it's certainly not something I would advise ignoring unless you are in a very non-competitive field. It's the obvious first cut- can this be done properly within the time allowed? We throw out loads on that basis (this is for a major funding body). Maybe social sciences is different but in science yes, we certainly go back to the original proposal and annual reports have to be filed explaining how the work has gone in relation to the original proposal.

Cross posted, but that's changed too in most places- you register for a PhD from the word go now.

I can see the logic of it, Tamum, and especially in the sciences where competition for funding is so very fierce. I can't help thinking, however, that it makes for very dull research degrees. Or perhaps they're becoming the new Masters' Degree (if you presuppose that a Masters' is the new BA/BSc).

Anyway, enough intellectualising from me. I've got bloody work to do!

Well, I disagree that it makes them dull- things can and do veer away from the proposal, in some cases completely, but at least there is a sensible proposal to fall back on. Given that it costs around £14K per year (minimum) to keep someone in reagents it is pretty important that they don't flail around doing stuff that is simply not worth it, however boring that might sound

I think it's quite natural that PhD theses, especially in the social sciences, grow and evolve so much during the course of the research that they may travel far from the original proposal.

At the application stage though I would expect to see that the applicant has given sufficient thought to the process and can at least make a fair attempt at justifying the proposed research as it stands (whilst acknowledging that it's likely to change) - especially when there's funding up for grabs as there is in this case.

Otherwise, as Kathy says, the potential supervisor might be left wondering whether the applicant is really aware of what's involved in the PhD.

At our place all students are registered initially with MPhil status and then 'upgrade' after the first year.

Ahem, boys and gals, this isn't helping the monkey...

It doesn't matter what degree you are registered for in the first instance (FWIW everywhere I've worked has been a generic Higher Degree by Research till end of Year 1, so this may also be an Arts/Sciences thing), the proposal is still a proposal for a PhD and needs to show that you know what a PhD involves.

Personally I wouldn't reject an over-ambitious proposal out of hand. I would assume that it was just an excess of enthusiasm, and would try to get the student to tone it down later. But I would be worried about something which showed no understanding of what can realistically be achieved in three years. So I'd want some acknowledgement of what the applicant perceives to be a do-able amount of work. So, for instance, you might say (in my area) something like: 'The vastness of the range of potential sources in this area means that I would envisage limiting my analysis to the period between 1200 and 1300' or '...only to MSS produced in Italy' or whatever. The person reading the application may disagree, but it shows that you have at least thought about it.

As GuitarGirl said...!

I thought it would be quite helpful to discuss it personally (although not the niceties of registering, maybe) It's not an arts/sciences thing with the higher degree registration as it's a university rule, they don't have separate regulations for different subjects. I thought they said when they changed that it was to bring us into line with other Russell Group universities, but maybe I misunderstood.

Sorry, wasn't being stroppy Tamum... Not intentionally, anyway. Was thinking of the question of whether trying to be too time-specific made for dull degrees. Obviously monkey doesn't think her research will be dull (even if she does specify what she thinks will be reasonable to get done in the time). Better to have a clear idea of what can be done in the time than the old situation where the PhD could basically be your life's work and potentially never-ending. Which was, of course, why so many people never finished. I came in right at the end of that, so was allowed a very very woolly proposal, but still had the pressure to finish the damn thing!

Interesting about the registrations though. Admittedly here (and in other places I know) you are no longer registered automatically for an MPhil (and then upgraded) it's more like a provisional PhD registration (or a generic Higher Degree by Research) which then gets confirmed.

You weren't being stroppy I know it's veering off a bit, but I thought it might be quite a useful discussion. Yes, that's exactly what I mean, it's a provisional PhD registration instead of "Higher degree" followed by MPhil or PhD at the end of the first year, so it sounds as though it's exactly the same in at least some other places. That's why I was surprised that we seemed to be so out of kilter.

I'm in a Russell Group institution too. They must all know what each other is up to.

Must go do some marking. I hate this time of year! I find my comments get progressively more sarcastic as the marking period goes on (though hopefully the marks remain fair).

I have a stack of dissertations from yet another R. Group place where I am external... I've only got a week to do them So why am I on here you might ask

Displacement activity.

There is a thesis to be written on the use of the internet as a displacement activity. In fact, I should register to do one... paradoxically, it might get me off here (if I started to view 'here' as 'work') and make me indulge in a more useful displacement activity... like, say, housework.

Come to think of it... why am I still here?